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Dagorhir Web Boards • View topic - Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Talk about clothing patterns and other special Dagorhir equipment you have made

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Milo Baines » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:12 pm

[quote="Thrush Svartehjertet"]
Why don't we just leave it at that it was a perfect film.  Un-freaking real, that one...

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[/quote]

Word.

I thought Shogun was pretty awesome too, if you can sit through the whole ten hours of it.

[img width=400 height=543]http://clzimages.com/movie/large/53/53_d_30072_0_JamesClavellsShogun.jpg[/img]
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Raven Ghost » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:17 pm

[quote="Stellaria"]

Immortals (the one with Theseus) **** Dagorhir-wise, it's actually pretty sweet for costumes. Except for the gods. The gods and their ridiculous hats!
[/quote]

Amen, sister. I keep watching for Aphrodite to show up wearing a heart helmet.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Hanzo of Narnia » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:28 pm

[quote="Milo Baines"]
[quote="Thrush Svartehjertet"]
Why don't we just leave it at that it was a perfect film.  Un-freaking real, that one...

Thrush
berserk
[/quote]

Word.

I thought Shogun was pretty awesome too, if you can sit through the whole ten hours of it.

[img width=400 height=543]http://clzimages.com/movie/large/53/53_d_30072_0_JamesClavellsShogun.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Milo Baines » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:33 pm

I'll add it to the list.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Magnus » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:50 pm

[quote="Milo Baines"]
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: ****

I thought the costumes (and set dec/locations) were just about perfect to my uninformed eyes.
[img width=350 height=350]http://www.brns.com/picts11/crtg7.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

EASILY one of my top 5 favorite movies of the 90s (if not all time), BUT....

Even though it takes place in a semi-mythical wuxia past, all of the clothing in that film is from the 1800s and conforms to (very nice) Qing Dynasty aesthetics. Ming Dynasty is the latest acceptable period for Dagorhir, and it ended in the mid-17th century (still too late for Dagorhir).
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Stellaria » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:40 pm

I was wondering about that, but didn't know enough to comment.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Vidarr » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:33 pm

[quote="Tarburz"]
[quote="Vidarr"]
Beowulf:  *** or less
Obnoxious, boring, annoying.  I have a theory that Beowulf is actually a musical starring Anthony Hopkin's CG belly...but that's another story.  Again, why is it so hard to make a decent Beowulf movie?
[/quote]

what are you talking about? Beowulf and Grendel was a fantastic movie. i know you were tlaking about the CG film but THIS one is awesome!
my only nitpick is Gerard's leather scale spaulders and breastplate :P
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[/quote]

Yea, I was going to mention that movie, but I haven't watched it for a really long time. I remember it being kind of dry....  I will say that it was probably one of the more accurate portrayals of viking armor/clothing that I remember, but there were some things (like you pointed out) that stuck out.

Stellaria: That's an interesting point about The 13th Warrior, it makes sense now.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Ingvar the Ruthless » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:57 am

Suprised no one has offered these yet but...

Spartacus [1960] :
**** for all the Roman costume looking entirely realistic. The only things which really detracted from the over all vision of that movie were the arms and armor that some of the gladiators were wearing. All the Roman stuff I saw looked pretty legit to my untrained eye.

Pathfinder :
*** Not sure what most of the "vikings" in this movie were wearing due to ridiculous ammounts of fake fur, but damn sure looked good overall from a fantasy standpoint. The movie gets points taken away from it because the runes on the sword said "Thunder Sword" in English, and points added for the realistic look to most of the vikings arms and some of the armor. While the helms that they were wearing were horned, it added to the overall fantasy aspect of the viking/barbarian look.
Will add a couple more tomorrow if I get the chance.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Olezka » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:43 am

I have not yet seen this film but if you look it up on YouTube, the garb and armor looks amazing.

Battle on the Neva: *****
[img width=450 height=300]http://cinema.rin.ru/poster/37061-01.jpg[/img]


Also, can't forget Stara Basn: *****
[img width=756 height=533]http://www.jomsborg.pl/galeria/29/stara_basn_09_d.jpg[/img]

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Thrush Svartehjertet » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:17 am

[quote="Vidarr"]


Yea, I was going to mention that movie, but I haven't watched it for a really long time. I remember it being kind of dry....  I will say that it was probably one of the more accurate portrayals of viking armor/clothing that I remember, but there were some things (like you pointed out) that stuck out.

Stellaria: That's an interesting point about The 13th Warrior, it makes sense now.
[/quote]

Ironically Outlander has some of the best viking costuming and armor in it...  Most of the armor was made by Schmittenhenner.  Good stuff, I hear they're dicks now though.

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Thrush Svartehjertet » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:20 am

I thought Pathfinder had good fantasy barbarians in it, not so much Vikings.  Also, I can't remember anything about that movie other than the hatred I felt the entire time.  It needed rocket launchers and machine guns to make it even slightly acceptable.

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Magnus » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:29 am

[quote="Olezka"]
I have not yet seen this film but if you look it up on YouTube, the garb and armor looks amazing.

Battle on the Neva: *****
[img width=450 height=300]http://cinema.rin.ru/poster/37061-01.jpg[/img]


Also, can't forget Stara Basn: *****
[img width=756 height=533]http://www.jomsborg.pl/galeria/29/stara_basn_09_d.jpg[/img]

Foreign films, go figure!
[/quote]

That's a REALLY blatant boom mike, though...makes me think that must be a production still rather than a screen capture.

I assume Battle on the Neva is about Alexander Nevsky?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Devaryn » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:50 am

Hey, Asian history experts:

Last Samurai - **** ONLY for the Samurai and the people who lived in their mountain village?

I know this movie is well past the time period, BUT, that being said, there is so much incredible armor in this movie I can't help but think it would be good inspiration for someone who wants that kind of kit.

The samurai in the movie were holding onto a time that was quickly becoming extinct to pave the way for modern industrialism.  Their village seemed like a perfect example of the "old ways" that they fought to maintain.  So if we can put aside the actual time period of the movie itself, how similar are the outfits the samurai wore to the samurai of a few centuries prior?  Are the differences in robes/hakama and armor that different, or did the movie properly depict the contrast between the old look and the new?  Further, if someone walked on the field wearing one of these kits, would they fit with the theme of Dagorhir?

[img width=230 height=219]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQPvanlHCDyKHs78clVwmfkIX6tXbx4ZUNzckAB9Fi_FJEB2WtVw&t=1[/img]

[img width=259 height=194]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJjzFmp39vfungnTBp-uoNRHAxV6UWYNNjK85a7XF0wC-P4T6r[/img]

[img width=183 height=275]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTApM4vISh9Az6YCL5NyO5BOVFK_JNJ_dszO6BzR_lfUNrGvmG4&t=1[/img]
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Oisín Leathshúileach » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:34 pm

[quote="Magnus"]
[quote="Olezka"]
I have not yet seen this film but if you look it up on YouTube, the garb and armor looks amazing.

Battle on the Neva: *****
[img width=450 height=300]http://cinema.rin.ru/poster/37061-01.jpg[/img]


Also, can't forget Stara Basn: *****
[img width=756 height=533]http://www.jomsborg.pl/galeria/29/stara_basn_09_d.jpg[/img]

Foreign films, go figure!
[/quote]

That's a REALLY blatant boom mike, though...makes me think that must be a production still rather than a screen capture.

I assume Battle on the Neva is about Alexander Nevsky?
[/quote]

Agreed on the boom/production still, but good enough.

Yes, the battle of Neva is the battle for which Nevsky earned his surname (Nevsky = "from Neva"), I haven't seen the movie to know how much it's about him.

The costumes in both look really, really good.  I don't know enough about 12th century Novgorod to rate the accuracy of the Nevsky photo, but it looks plausibly *****.  The Stara Basn shot I'd definitely give *****.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Moor Aurvandilsson » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:54 pm

Ran: ******
not an oriental expert on garb and armour, but it's Akira Kurosawa, so I'm pretty sure it's just about dead on on both fronts. And the weapons and everything else in the film as well. And the story and acting is fantastic as well.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby MidnightWolf » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:05 am

.......... ???
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Lione » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:32 pm

Troy- **-***
A good movie no doubt, and the story is fairly accurate, but most of the armor is floppy and fake looking.

King  Agamemnon's armor is just horrible
[img width=300 height=325]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Th4sr34RU94/S7DMdxbwwvI/AAAAAAAAAHg/X2vu-W7sZX8/s1600/Agamemnon%2B%2526%2BMenelaus%2BTroy.jpg[/img]
Although, Menelaus' is better.

Prince Hector's armor isn't much better than Agamemnon's
[img width=800 height=525]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2ajreYrkL1qmvk0no1_1280.jpg[/img]

Ajax's is horribly open and would probably get him killed in Dag.
[img width=360 height=547]http://im.glogster.com/media/4/12/17/62/12176248.jpg[/img]

Achilles:The helmet, bracers and upper part of the torso LOOK decent, but in one scene we can definitely see that helmet flex like a piece of rubber. Plus if he got stabbed in the stomach he would die.
[img width=360 height=540]http://www.dexuberance.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/troy-achilles2.jpg[/img]

Odysseus' is ok but not great.
[img width=300 height=300]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Th4sr34RU94/S7DdBQf9ACI/AAAAAAAAAKY/DchDigaB5F4/s1600/odysseus_troy_sean_bean_01.jpg[/img]

The Myrmidons armor is one of the few that isn't too bad.
[img width=480 height=360]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JZctCxAmzDs/0.jpg[/img]

The garb in the few scenes where there isn't fighting and people are unarmored seems to be decent though.


EDIT:Fixed link to Odysseus' armor.
Last edited by Lione on Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Mariner » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:50 am

[quote=&quot;Aurvandil Moor&quot;]
Ran: ******
not an oriental expert on garb and armour, but it's Akira Kurosawa, so I'm pretty sure it's just about dead on on both fronts. And the weapons and everything else in the film as well. And the story and acting is fantastic as well.
[/quote]

THIS. ALL OF THIS. Kurosawa is an absolute MUST for anyone who needs inspiration for feudal Japanese garb. Plus, the movies are phenomenal.

Specifically, I would recommend Ran, Rashomon, and Throne of Blood, all with *****. All three are set in Dag-appropriate times, and have multiple good examples of Japanese garb, from peasants to samurai and merchants, so there's lots to choose from. Even Seven Samurai, which is set in the late 16th century, has costumes that could be useful as slightly more fantasy inspiration.


Interesting side-note for those who like trivia: Ran is partially based on Shakespeare's tragedy King Lear, which was itself set in mythological pre-Rome "britain", so the source material is even Dag-friendly  :P  Also, Throne of Blood? Yeah, based on Macbeth. And in my opinion, both Shakespeare's original and Kurosawa's re-imagining have some fantastic character study in them for any Dagorhirrim looking for examples of feudal lord/11th century Scottish Thane roleplaying.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Thrush Svartehjertet » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:53 am

What about Kagemusha?


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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Devaryn » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:58 am

[quote=&quot;Lione&quot;]
Troy- **-***
A good movie no doubt, and the story is fairly accurate, but most of the armor is floppy and fake looking.
[/quote]

God do I love this movie.  It's pure swordfighting porn.  The choreography they orchestrated for Brad Pitt gives Achilles a very beautiful and distinguishable fighting style that is so entertaining to watch.  And the duel between Achilles and Hector is the best fight scene I've ever seen, in my opinion.

Totally agree about the armor, though.  It threw me for a loop the first time I saw Brad Pitt's helmet bend like rubber.  They do a good job on the aesthetic look of the armor, but it's obvious that it's little more than LARP armor.

That being said, the GARB is beautiful, I think, and all of it would fit very well in Dagorhir.  I particularly like the flowy skirts and tops of both civilizations, as it makes me think of what people who lived on the coast would wear.

[img width=432 height=288]http://images.zap2it.com/images/movie-34313/troy-37.jpg[/img]
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Argos » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:16 am

Troy's garb is laughably ahistorical, but I agree that it looks great. Also note that quite a number of them just wear armor instead of garb (see Hector, above). Would that get them kicked off the field in Dagorhir?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Hanzo of Narnia » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:28 am

I think its important to remember though that they're telling the story of the Illiad (all be it poorly and with a lot of feel good PC **** thrown in). It's EARLY greek history and Homer describes tons of weird armour made from exotic things. I think as far as the look goes they nailed in my mind what armour would have looked like in the "dark ages" of greece. Also remember they had some weird stuff to begin with anyways.

A lot of it reminds me vaguely of Phillip II cuirass
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Devaryn » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:51 am

[quote=&quot;Sarus&quot;]
Troy's garb is laughably ahistorical, but I agree that it looks great. Also note that quite a number of them just wear armor instead of garb (see Hector, above). Would that get them kicked off the field in Dagorhir?
[/quote]

It amused me when I first saw the movie and said "Look, Brad Pitt is wearing a hippie skirt!"  There is a lot of loose-fitting garb like that worn throughout, but damned if it doesn't look good, and is very representative of one of the current "fashions" in Dagorhir: wearing skirts or other really baggy pants with a loose-fitting open vest or robe.  Some of the shawls and robes (like the one in that picture above) made me think of ancient Hebrew garb, actually.  I remember seeing something similar in one of those old Charlton Heston movies.

Hector wears a skirt and sandals, I believe, which would be acceptable to wear by itself on the field.  If someone can take the field in a loincloth, then they're allowed to wear full armor + loincloth, for example.  The whole "armor is not garb" thing is meant to address people who wear armor over obviously modern clothing, like UA or a T-shirt, with no actual garb being used to cover it.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Hanzo of Narnia » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:54 am

Oh no, why do people have to scratch and claw for every little justification of ****.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Jari Kafghan » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:26 am

Dev, Hanzo stop.

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Devaryn » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:13 pm

....?  ???

I wasn't arguing about anything.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Lione » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:00 pm

[quote=&quot;Hanzo of Narnia&quot;]
I think its important to remember though that they're telling the story of the Illiad (all be it poorly and with a lot of feel good PC bull**** thrown in). It's EARLY greek history and Homer describes tons of weird armour made from exotic things. I think as far as the look goes they nailed in my mind what armour would have looked like in the "dark ages" of greece. Also remember they had some weird stuff to begin with anyways.

A lot of it reminds me vaguely of Phillip II cuirass
[img width=133 height=179]http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedonians-part2/images/142.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I agree partially with this, Odysseus' and Menelaus' armor look like that chestpiece, but some of the other stuff would not actually function as armor at all(or not very well at least). Achilles', Agamemnon's and Hector's for example. The last two are all gaudy and covered in weird decorations and the first one is obviously very thin leather.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Anvildude » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:23 pm

Remember, though, that armour technology was still relatively new back then.  The Bronze Age was about the first time people had access to a material both hard, light and tough enough for proper armour, and the idea was more 'get this in between me and the pointy thing' and less 'deflect, absorb, redirect' like it was later.  Armour, also, was a status symbol and an investment, right up there with crowns and jewelry.

Between these two things, I could easily see armour being made of small plates or rondells detailing periods of history or myth, and fancifully sculpted helms and pauldrons.  They'd also work to let you be more visible on the field, and stand out more.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Mariner » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:28 pm

[quote=&quot;Thrush Svartehjertet&quot;]
What about Kagemusha?


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[/quote]

That's one I'll admit has been on my "watch this" list for a couple of years now and I haven't gotten around to it. A quick wiki-google suggests that it would also be a good movie to watch for garb and fighting styles – that's another thing that Kurosawa does very well, is fight scenes that aren't over-the-top but are still exciting. Which, again, might be super useful for someone aiming their character in a samurai/Japanese peasant fashion.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Hanzo of Narnia » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:40 pm

[quote=&quot;Lione&quot;]
[quote=&quot;Hanzo of Narnia&quot;]
I think its important to remember though that they're telling the story of the Illiad (all be it poorly and with a lot of feel good PC bull**** thrown in). It's EARLY greek history and Homer describes tons of weird armour made from exotic things. I think as far as the look goes they nailed in my mind what armour would have looked like in the "dark ages" of greece. Also remember they had some weird stuff to begin with anyways.

A lot of it reminds me vaguely of Phillip II cuirass
[img width=133 height=179]http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-macedonians-part2/images/142.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I agree partially with this, Odysseus' and Menelaus' armor look like that chestpiece, but some of the other stuff would not actually function as armor at all(or not very well at least). Achilles', Agamemnon's and Hector's for example. The last two are all gaudy and covered in weird decorations and the first one is obviously very thin leather.
[/quote]

Kid have you ever actually read the Iliad or looked at very early armour?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Magnus » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:58 pm

[quote=&quot;Anvildude&quot;]
Remember, though, that armour technology was still relatively new back then.  The Bronze Age was about the first time people had access to a material both hard, light and tough enough for proper armour, and the idea was more 'get this in between me and the pointy thing' and less 'deflect, absorb, redirect' like it was later.  Armour, also, was a status symbol and an investment, right up there with crowns and jewelry.

Between these two things, I could easily see armour being made of small plates or rondells detailing periods of history or myth, and fancifully sculpted helms and pauldrons.  They'd also work to let you be more visible on the field, and stand out more.
[/quote]

Hey, as a graduate student in classics I am going to have to call BS on this. Armor was worn because it protected its wearer; anything else would have been a useless encumbrance. The descriptions in the Homeric epics (which were not written by "Homer" so much as they were accreted over a few centuries' worth of oral tradition before someone wrote them down and credited them to a famous rhapsode) are vague and muddled and represent a combination of Bronze Age, Dark Age, and possibly early Archaic armors.

Some of the stuff in Troy was cool, though a lot of it--such as Achilles' helmet--was either too anachronistic for me, personally, as a classicist to like it, or was just not functional enough in appearance for me to enjoy it. Achilles' armor happens to be both, unfortunately--but I will definitely agree with Dev that Achilles was very well choreographed and, I think, pretty well cast. That movie is really not all that bad from a classicizing perspective; it gets some parts of the story really, really well--and of course, we need to understand that the idea of one, canonical, "correct" version of a story was completely alien to the Greeks anyway, so....
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Lione » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:06 pm

[quote=&quot;Hanzo of Narnia&quot;]

Kid have you ever actually read the Iliad or looked at very early armour?
[/quote]
I've read both the Iliad and the Odyssey. The Odyssey more recently though. I just did some googling and I'm not finding any quotes from the Iliad that would describe armor like in the movie.
I have not looked very much at early early greek armor. I know a good deal about the Golden Age and the armor revolving around that. Do you have any pictures I could look at from that period?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Magnus » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:18 am

Usually they're just described as something like χαλκοχίτωνες, which means only "bronze-shirted." Or something like "ἐυκνήμιδες," which is usually translated as "well-greaved."
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Brennos » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:28 am

[quote=&quot;Silk the Stacked&quot;]

[/quote]

I had a friend who wanted me to make that thing for her. She was... umm... Somewhat more endowed than Ms. Knightley. Fortunately she dropped the idea before any actual production was done.

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On Princess Bride - Personally I'd pass Fezzik and The Dread Pirate Roberts through, no problem. They're obviously not modern clothes and they're a couple of steps nicer than polos with the necks cut out.

7 Samurai - ****, but only because I'm not sure that the costumes are historically accurate. Great movie. Particularly like that the samurai and bandits both use very piecemeal armor based on their preferences and what they have available. Neither side is well to do, they're making due with what they can beg, borrow, or steal. Plus Kikuchiyo is ten badasses standing on each other's shoulders.


13 Assassins - **** Probably a little late period for Dag, but the Japanese got off to a slow start so it's forgivable. The Costumes look good and lived in, if a little drab.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Whisper Moonson » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:56 pm

Robin Hood (Patrick Bergen version) - **** for garb, really weak *** for armor (so weak it's tempting to give it 2 stars, but alas, except for some of the super-small gauge mail, it'd pass).

The garb in this one did a really good job of portraying the medieval feel, and even a bit of the flavor of the post-Norman conquest times, even as it fell way short of historical accuracy. It would've been better if the tunics were longer (only crotch length when they should have been knee length or slightly longer), but I'd still gladly point newcomers at this film as a good target for garb.

The armor, however, was mostly passable, but also mostly lame. There were coifs so finely woven that they almost looked like fabric (no gripe about the craftsmanship, but that's too fine to pass our rules), nice spangenhelms with nasals (yay!), and a strange fashion of wearing nothing but a gambeson, a coif, and a helmet for armor (no particular complaint, but I thought it rather odd). So far, that's not bad and a fairly solid three, but then King John's troops showed up in their sort of MacjyeahIcantrememberhowtospellitsky helms and godawful pseudobrigandine and I wept, knowing I couldn't knock the armor score down to 2 stars because that kind of thing fits just fine within our rules, even if I'd never recommend it. So, yeah, it's three stars. You can make and use most of the armor from this film in Dagorhir, but you'd be better off looking elsewhere.

In other news...

Henry V (Brannagh version) - *****

It's Kenneth F***ing Brannagh, and he's better than you, the people he hires for his movies are better than you, and even the production assistant who screens his calls and brings him coffee is better than you. This film is a masterpiece, and if you don't go out and massacre a bunch of French knights every time you hear the Saint Crispin's Day speech, there's something wrong with you. Garb: perfect. Armor: perfect. Acting: perfect.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Magnus » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:51 am

Gonna have to take issue with you on the Branagh film, there. Hal's armor and clothing are not *****. Look at this pic:

[img width=620 height=388]http://torontopubliclibrary.typepad.com/.a/6a00e5509ea6a18834016303ad6513970d-800wi[/img]

For one thing, he's wearing modern-fitting pants. For another, he has a weird brigandine gorget and gauntlet set with no apparent arm armor. He doesn't seem to be wearing any armor, in fact, besides the very formless brigandine thing he has on below his surcoat.

Compare that to Olivier:

[img width=720 height=540]http://www.artscatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/henry-v-dvd-review-criterion-olivier-pdvd_011-01.jpg[/img]

This really is much better--he looks sort of like he just jumped out of an early 15th century funeral brass plaque (and put his great bascinet on his saddle) before giving the St. Crispin's Day speech. His gauntlets and cuisses are too late period--they look more like the Italian export armor that was being worn about 50 years later--but the rest of his armor, including the scalloping on the couters and the shape of the pauldrons and gorget, looks very good for the Battle of Agincourt. Plus, it all looks like it fits the actor very well.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Moor Aurvandilsson » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:02 pm

[quote=&quot;Whisper Moonson&quot;]
It's Kenneth F***ing Brannagh, and he's better than you
[/quote]

Kenneth Brannagh directed the marvel thor movie. he's dead to me.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Whisper Moonson » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:36 pm

Olivier is better than Brannagh, truly.

And I think this is where we discover the real limitations to this rating system. Henry V is much better than the Bergin Robin Hood, which itself goes well beyond the baseline for Dagorhir. However, because it turns out that Henry V is not perfect after all, it can't rank at five stars.

Weak five? Strong four? 4.5?

But I still use Brannagh's rendition of the St. Crispin's speech to get my fight on.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Danoth the Tyrant » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:28 pm

****

Im no expert, but I think the peasants and most of the movie really looks pretty accurate. Despite it being a comedy and the super low budget...they did pretty damn good. Right?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Sirser Tarburz, Double-Knight of House Tull » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:45 pm

[quote=&quot;Danoth the Tyrant&quot;]
****

Im no expert, but I think the peasants and most of the movie really looks pretty accurate. Despite it being a comedy and the super low budget...they did pretty damn good. Right?
[/quote]
except for the cotton maille I'd have to agree. also the fight between the Green and Black knight is SPOT.ON.

well.... except for the stab through the visor hole obviously
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Stellaria » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:41 pm

Wool. The maille was knitted of wool.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Sirser Tarburz, Double-Knight of House Tull » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:08 pm

I was wondering if you'd fact check me on that. I almost said wool but I wasn't sure lol
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Ragefire » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:17 pm

I am in no way qualified to judge, but I just saw a movie called First Knight w/ Sean Connery and Richard Gere. Seems like some of the garb could be legit but the Knights armor looked weird. Thoughts?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Magpie » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:26 pm

[quote=&quot;Magnus&quot;]
Compare that to Olivier:

[img width=720 height=540]http://www.artscatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/henry-v-dvd-review-criterion-olivier-pdvd_011-01.jpg[/img]

This really is much better--he looks sort of like he just jumped out of an early 15th century funeral brass plaque (and put his great bascinet on his saddle) before giving the St. Crispin's Day speech. His gauntlets and cuisses are too late period--they look more like the Italian export armor that was being worn about 50 years later--but the rest of his armor, including the scalloping on the couters and the shape of the pauldrons and gorget, looks very good for the Battle of Agincourt. Plus, it all looks like it fits the actor very well.
[/quote]

Is his bling necklace period too? The armor looks good, but those almost dollars signs seem strange to me.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Kade » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:11 pm

Just tossing this out there for the Troy lovers...



If this is true, its more likely that the armor during the time the events of the Iliad took place was more viking than greek. Its speculation though...even if it does make a lot of sense.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Moor Aurvandilsson » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:59 am

[quote=&quot;Kade&quot;]
Just tossing this out there for the Troy lovers...



If this is true, its more likely that the armor during the time the events of the Iliad took place was more viking than greek. Its speculation though...even if it does make a lot of sense.
[/quote]


You stealin' my links, boy?
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Jari Kafghan » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:14 am

I totally stole it.

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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Stellaria » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:13 am

That is SUCH a fun theory! That's as fun as Kon Tiki as far as theories go :D
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby Kade » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:26 am

[quote=&quot;Aurvandil Moor&quot;]

You stealin' my links, boy?
[/quote]



Who are you calling boy?



@ Stell

I thought so too!

I always wondered why there would be a civilization of white ish guys right between Africa and the Middle East. I mean they had to come from somewhere right?

And historians for some reason always treat oceans as barriers between different peoples, even though throughout all of recorded history they are the complete opposite.
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Re: Garb in Cinema - The Good, the Bad, and the WTF?

Postby ffride wlffsdotter » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:31 am

[quote=&quot;Magpie Saegar&quot;]
Is his bling necklace period too? The armor looks good, but those almost dollars signs seem strange to me.
[/quote]

It's a livery collar - in fact it's probably the most famous sort known as a "collar of esses." The internet says the earliest image of one is from 1371, so it was a real thing, albeit somewhat variable in the way the esses were arranged.

See: "The Lancastrian Collar of Esses: Its Origins and Transformations Down the Centuries" http://books.google.com.au/books?id=3uR ... CD0Q6AEwAg
and a 15th century example with a different arrangement of esses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:David ... andaff.jpg
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