Weapon Materials Guide

Building a weapon? Have a new design or helpful hint you would like to share? Please ask advice or give advice here!

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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:04 am

[quote="Twolf"]
Updated to include a mention of double sided duct tape, something that a few others mentioned using to success.  If people start using it and end up having serious safety problems with it, I'll remove it.
[/quote]

I have been using double sided duct tape for many of my weapons (all of my loaners in face) and have never had an issue for going on the 4 years that I have been using it. I may get my camera out and make a small tutorial on 5 dollar swords, Dapless swords.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Tycho Velius » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:19 pm

[quote="Drunken Bob"]
[quote="Twolf"]
Updated to include a mention of double sided duct tape, something that a few others mentioned using to success.  If people start using it and end up having serious safety problems with it, I'll remove it.
[/quote]

I have been using double sided duct tape for many of my weapons (all of my loaners in face) and have never had an issue for going on the 4 years that I have been using it. I may get my camera out and make a small tutorial on 5 dollar swords, Dapless swords.
[/quote]
That would be greatly appreciated... we try to avoid hauling out the DAP for anything less than a full-on unit weapon spree, since it's so noxious.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:32 am

[quote="Tycho"]
[quote="Drunken Bob"]
[quote="Twolf"]
Updated to include a mention of double sided duct tape, something that a few others mentioned using to success.  If people start using it and end up having serious safety problems with it, I'll remove it.
[/quote]

I have been using double sided duct tape for many of my weapons (all of my loaners in face) and have never had an issue for going on the 4 years that I have been using it. I may get my camera out and make a small tutorial on 5 dollar swords, Dapless swords.
[/quote]
That would be greatly appreciated... we try to avoid hauling out the DAP for anything less than a full-on unit weapon spree, since it's so noxious.
[/quote]

I threw a dapless sword tutorial out there for you
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Tycho Velius » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:49 pm

[quote="Drunken Bob"]
[quote="Tycho"]
[quote="Drunken Bob"]
[quote="Twolf"]
Updated to include a mention of double sided duct tape, something that a few others mentioned using to success.  If people start using it and end up having serious safety problems with it, I'll remove it.
[/quote]

I have been using double sided duct tape for many of my weapons (all of my loaners in face) and have never had an issue for going on the 4 years that I have been using it. I may get my camera out and make a small tutorial on 5 dollar swords, Dapless swords.
[/quote]
That would be greatly appreciated... we try to avoid hauling out the DAP for anything less than a full-on unit weapon spree, since it's so noxious.
[/quote]

I threw a dapless sword tutorial out there for you
[/quote]
I saw it. It's pretty awesome, and once I get out to a Wally-World for some double-duct goodness, we'll be on our way.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Mesusah of Galladorn » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:12 pm

What kind of covering should I use for a Flail?  ???
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:21 pm

4 feet of earth sounds good to me. If you can sew, I like cotton T-shirt knit for weapons covers. It's nice and soft and you can wipe off your sweaty brow with it. If you can't sew, you can use a pair of tights as your handle AND your chain. Just leave some way of tightening it, as you'll face a likelihood of chain stretch
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:28 pm

[quote="stylgar"]
4 feet of earth sounds good to me. If you can sew, I like cotton T-shirt knit for weapons covers. It's nice and soft and you can wipe off your sweaty brow with it. If you can't sew, you can use a pair of tights as your handle AND your chain. Just leave some way of tightening it, as you'll face a likelihood of chain stretch
[/quote]

In addition, to help with tearing or stretch, put a length of rope inside and then tie it on either end of the chain and that will help with stretch some too.

I take a bag of sorts and then I put a knot at the end, towards the flail head, with the rope inside (so the rope is part of the knot) Then i measure about 5 inches and tie another know (so the rope is in the 5 inches. I then take the left over (i make it about an extra 4 feet or so) and threat that through the center of the core, so it is nice and tight, inside the core, and tie a knot (with the rope still in there) at the bottom so that it is stretched nice and taut inside the core. And then i cover the core, link the chain and it is a nice ready flail
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Orestes Brena » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:56 pm

[quote="Mesusah of Galladorn"]
What kind of covering should I use for a Flail?  ???
[/quote]

Mesusah your from wilder? I live near maysville, i'm only about a hour and a half away. Were do you go for events?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby corpse » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:51 pm

hey uhh,  Twolf or who ever,, might think about adding the "automotive" duct tape  to your list,  ive never used the gorrilla tape but from hearing people talk about its properties i would rank the automotive duct tape  some where between
duct tape

and

gorrilla tape


sorry if this has already been mentioned,  but i like it  its IMO sticker then regular duct tape and dosent tear as easily ( still fairly easy to tear as far as that goes)  only think that i dont like about it is that when you put it on somehting or just have it sitting there infront of your face (in your mouth while you are using both hands to line up a seam)  it stinks like cigarettes .

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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:09 am

I'll consider it.  I'd rather get something a little more specific than simply automotive.  Gaffers and Gorilla are both subsets of duct tape.  Is there anything immediately distinguishing about automotive duct tape beyond stickyness level and tear resistance?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby corpse » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:29 pm

the label on the packaging says "automotive"?  what are you asking me?
also it smells like cigarettes?  smokers dream?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:33 pm

It's probably regular duct tape with a more expensive label.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby corpse » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:45 pm

well,  then i am paying for the psychosomatic effects of more expensive duct tape under a differant name mmmm "plecibo tape"  but IMO its more sticky then the regular duct tape that i usually get.  maybe the roll i got was left out in the sun on a pallet in the walmart parking lot.../shrug.

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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:42 am

Corpse,

It's difficult to recommend a tape that isn't as strong as Gorilla tape, but may or may not exhibit better tear resistance.  Additionally, I don't like putting things on this list that only one person on the forums can vouch for.  I'd like to hear from others who have used it and can directly compare it with the other tapes listed; and can tell me whether this is an interesting enough tape to mention.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:24 pm

gorilla tape (in my experience with it) it VERY strong but should be covered by another layer of foam and SHOULD NOT be used on a striking surface. Me and my friends have left fights with actual deep cuts with that stuff. We even sanded the edges down and we still got cut

Verdict: Good for underlying layers but not the top ones.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Commissar Dudley S. Thunder, Master of Earth-Realm. » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:13 pm

Gorilla tape is useless for weapons.

It's too heavy.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:42 am

if your trying to add some weight its perfect
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Commissar Dudley S. Thunder, Master of Earth-Realm. » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:33 pm

Never use the blade to make weight it creates a much less safe weapon.


Weight your handle, not your blade.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Arrakis » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:02 pm

That can produce an unbalanced weapon.

Weight whatever you like; it does not significantly compromise the safety of anything.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Commissar Dudley S. Thunder, Master of Earth-Realm. » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:43 pm

Wrong.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Arrakis » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:16 pm

lol.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby BRVTVS » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:34 am

Hey T, how about adding www.bestdagstuff.com to this? I've got all kinds of materials including square fiberglass and eva. Plus, I'm going to be donating a percentage of my profits to Dagorhir.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:32 pm

Done.  But now we're all watching you.  If you start selling shoddy stuff, I'm removing the links :D

Care to elaborate on how your profits go to Dagorhir?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Falkrix » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:36 am

There have recently been a lot of questions regarding the plasti dip process and where to get the materials... would it be possible to add in the following section?


Decoration
  • Plasti Dip - A spray on or paint-on covering for weapons (paint-on is often superior to the spray for weapon making purposes). Available is Black, Red, Yellow, Blue, and Clear, with a pigment kit available if you wish to make your own colors. Available online at k1cra.com, and The Quilter's Husband. The 14.5 oz can is also often found at Lowe's and Home Depot near the spray paint. Sometimes available at neighborhood hardware stores.
    + Pros: Simple to apply and very durable. Can be easily painted over. Clear PD makes a great sealant over paints. Conforms to shape of the underlying weapon, so just about any three dimensional effects can be achieved.
    - Cons: Conforms to the shape of the underlying weapon, which means blue foam makes a weird surface texture. Time consuming. Solvents in the PD will eat away at any adhesive bonds not completely cured, meaning you must wait at least 24 hours before dipping a weapon after you glue it, sometimes more. Must use multiple layers and wait for each to dry. Can be punctured by sharp points on metal armor, although repairing these punctures is simple, it is still a nuisance when it happens.
  • Fun Foam - Although is may go by other names (like Crazy Foam, or Foamies), this thin (2mm-6mm) foam is easily cut with a razor or Exact knife and applied to build up designs on a weapon to go underneath Plastidip. Available at Wal-Mart, Joanne's, and Michael's in small sheets, large sheets require a little searching on the internet to find.
    + Pros: Very easy to shape and apply. Cheap.
    - Cons: Requires a very sharp blade to cut evenly.
  • Spray Paint - Flexible varieties can be used to paint over PD. Available just about everywhere: good brands to use include Krylon and Rustoleum. Make sure the type you choose is usable on plastic.
    + Pros: Super Easy to use. Cheap. Can cover a large area in a short time.
    - Cons: Not very precise. Must be 18 in some places to purchase it. Overwhelming variety: test out any spray paint on a scrap piece of dipped foam before using it, as some types are very rigid and will affect a weapon's hit, or worse.
  • Acrylic Paint - Brush or spray-on paint used to paint details over PD. Many different types are available, but Liquitex Soft Body Acrylic is the paint of choice for weapons. If you choose to use another variety, make sure it has similar properties. Available at any art dealer (Michael's, some Joann's, Dick Blick Art Supply).
    + Pros: Very precise. Amazing detail possible. Good paints have large coverage with a small amount of paint. Water Soluble when wet, chemically inert when dry. Relatively easy to use in a basic fashion. Good varieties are very flexible and self-leveling.
    - Cons: Very expensive. Permanent if spilled on cloth. Takes good painting skills to use well.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:37 am

Sure thing.  It's up and I've edited it down a bit

Questions:
-What's the best solvent to use for cleaning up Plasti Dip?
-Can we get recommended types of Krylon and Rustoleum?  I'm tempted to pull the whole spray paint section unless we have a name for what's good.
-Are there any alternatives to Plasti Dip (aka why Plasti-Dip over others?)
Last edited by Twolf on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Falkrix » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:23 pm

[quote="Twolf"]
Questions:
-What's the best solvent to use for cleaning up Plasti Dip?
[/quote]
Naptha. Or PD thinner, available a the same places as the PD online. Best thing is to not mess it up though, as it is a bitch to clean up if you get it in fabric. If you get it on a hard surface though, you can just wait for it to dry before peeling it up.

[quote="Twolf"]
-Can we get recommended types of Krylon and Rustoleum?  I'm tempted to pull the whole spray paint section unless we have a name for what's good.
[/quote]
Those are the names for what's good. Both normal Krylon and Rustoleum paints are flexible when dry and formulated for use on plastic. In the end though, spray paint is an inferior weapon paint to a good acrylic.

[quote="Twolf"]
-Are there any alternatives to Plasti Dip (aka why Plasti-Dip over others?)
[/quote]

Plastidip is really one of those products that is truly one of a kind. The closest thing is pre-vulcanized slush latex, which is a bit more finicky to apply, not as tough, and requires much more care. It's also harder to get a hold of, while you can get PD at home improvement stores. It also hits a bit harder than PD (it isn't quite as flexible). PD is also easily painted, while paints will peal off of latex over time without an additive. PD is also its own sealant and I am not aware of any allergies to its ingredients; neither can be said for slush latex.

So, basically, while slush latex will always be a bit of a niche product in weapons making, PD is just better in every aspect that I can think of.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Ethio di Firenze » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:13 pm

what kind of foam should i use for a javelin tip? Also where do i get EVAlite?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:41 pm

I have had issues with the lighter EVA foam. I have found that it doesnt have memory and after making several swords, I personally stand behind McMaster Carr EVA foam. In comparison, this foam lasts several years on a red while the lighter ones last maybe one or 2 fights and break down very quickly
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Falkrix » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:01 pm

[quote="Drunken Bob"]
I have had issues with the lighter EVA foam. I have found that it doesnt have memory and after making several swords, I personally stand behind McMaster Carr EVA foam. In comparison, this foam lasts several years on a red while the lighter ones last maybe one or 2 fights and break down very quickly
[/quote]

How are you constructing it? I haven't had any of these problems whatsoever...
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Ethio di Firenze » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:05 pm

thanks for the info
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:03 am

[quote="Falkrix the Soulless"]
[quote="Drunken Bob"]
I have had issues with the lighter EVA foam. I have found that it doesnt have memory and after making several swords, I personally stand behind McMaster Carr EVA foam. In comparison, this foam lasts several years on a red while the lighter ones last maybe one or 2 fights and break down very quickly
[/quote]

How are you constructing it? I haven't had any of these problems whatsoever...
[/quote]

Just a sword, a plain light short red.

And it isn't only me, it has broken down for quite a few people out here and elsewhere as I have heard
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Falkrix » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:29 pm

By construction I meant things like:

What kind of adhesives? What kind of cover? Did you use cloth tape on the striking surfaces as recommended? What kind of construction did you use to make the sword, box, sandwich, something else?

I'm only asking, because I know that there are some extra precautions you need to use when using that foam, but once you have it's really nice. For instance, you need to use something to give it a bit of skin, otherwise the surface will shred pretty easily, which is why people have suggested running a layer of cloth tape over the striking surface. It also helps give it a bit more memory. If you look at some of the swords made using the fries from that material, they have strapping tape on the flats and cloth tape on the striking surface, and they seem to hold up pretty well. Once you take the recommended precautions, I haven't seen anybody having any issues.

I have used PD under the cloth on the striking surface and flats, and it does pretty much the same thing with less weight, and I haven't seen much break down on weapons I have made using this foam that way, and they have seen much more than one or two fights.

Although I will agree that the McM-C EVA does have much greater memory.  Almost too much: my big red still has a dent in it from where I left it in my car and it was leaning against the edge of one of the seats. It's come out a bit, but it will probably be a while until it comes out all the way...
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kendall » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:25 pm

Does anyone have any experience with square PVC? I have heard of it being used and was wondering how it held up, and if it was readly avalible in stores. if I have to get it online, i would probally just rather get somthing else.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Arrakis » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:21 pm

Never seen it.  Get some kitespar, solid round fiberglass, or solid square fiberglass.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:14 am

[quote="Kendall Cinvent"]
Does anyone have any experience with square PVC? I have heard of it being used and was wondering how it held up, and if it was readly avalible in stores. if I have to get it online, i would probally just rather get somthing else.
[/quote]

What are you using it for?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Drunken Bob (For Congress) » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:19 am

[quote="Falkrix the Soulless"]
By construction I meant things like:

What kind of adhesives? What kind of cover? Did you use cloth tape on the striking surfaces as recommended? What kind of construction did you use to make the sword, box, sandwich, something else?

I'm only asking, because I know that there are some extra precautions you need to use when using that foam, but once you have it's really nice. For instance, you need to use something to give it a bit of skin, otherwise the surface will shred pretty easily, which is why people have suggested running a layer of cloth tape over the striking surface. It also helps give it a bit more memory. If you look at some of the swords made using the fries from that material, they have strapping tape on the flats and cloth tape on the striking surface, and they seem to hold up pretty well. Once you take the recommended precautions, I haven't seen anybody having any issues.

I have used PD under the cloth on the striking surface and flats, and it does pretty much the same thing with less weight, and I haven't seen much break down on weapons I have made using this foam that way, and they have seen much more than one or two fights.

Although I will agree that the McM-C EVA does have much greater memory.  Almost too much: my big red still has a dent in it from where I left it in my car and it was leaning against the edge of one of the seats. It's come out a bit, but it will probably be a while until it comes out all the way...
[/quote]

I don't like cloth tape on the surfaces of weapons because it can hide imperfections. i used to try it, and i have tried it on this foam with the same problems, not as much, but they are still breaking down pretty fast. I know that there has been some PD use up here with some of the same problems as well, it doesnt break down as fast as bare, but faster than MMC foam (but then MMC foam is about 3-4 times the price, as well, so it has its disadvantages.
I am actually testing the lighter EVA on the fronts of shields or as rocks, to see what I get from there, and the rocks are turning out really nice so far, really nice.

We have even had a surface of blue over the EVA and it is still tearing down pretty quickly all in all (and I use my general method, like in my dapless blue sword tutorial)
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cayden Nikaal » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:12 pm

I have a question, does anyone have any experience working with Volara foam? I am naught but a dirt-poor college student, and none of the Walmarts in the area seem to carry the Blue Foam anymore :( I did manage to find a place which sells volara, minicell, and polyethylene foam on the web at what I believe are somewhat decent prices (http://www.closedcellfoams.com/index.html).

However, I am not anxious to spend money on foam that will wind up not passing inspection as my funds are severely limited. I'd be much obliged for any advice/help/info.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Commissar Dudley S. Thunder, Master of Earth-Realm. » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:17 pm

BRUTUS sells like 12 dollar rolls of EVA foam on his site.

Someone else can link it.
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Commissar Dudley S. Thunder, Master of Earth-Realm.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cayden Nikaal » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:45 pm

If it's www.bestdagstuff.com, I believe they're currently out of stock on the EVA foam, and I'm in need of the foam fairly soon here...my Great-sword needs replaced. Otherwise I would have jumped on that deal like a hobo on a big mac...
"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the last day."
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Arrakis » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:49 pm

Some MC is of use.  I'm not the guy to ask about it, though.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Timur » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:35 pm

Hey all,

I'm pretty new, less than a year and have made weapons using the Eryndor tutorial pdf.

I've made some blue swords out of EVA and a couple out of blue camp foam and I've made a stabbing tip from ensolite, so I'm somewhat familiar with these three foams. 

Here's my question-
Recently I've examined a sword that someone told me is from Edhellen armory- does anyone know what sort of foam they use?  I'm curious.  The foam seems to be stiffer than the other three I've used so far. 

Thanks!
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Arrakis » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:03 pm

I believe that it is a type of cross-linked polyethylene.  You CAN email the company and ask them, you know.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Falkrix » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:06 pm

[quote="Arrakis"]
I believe that it is a type of cross-linked polyethylene.
[/quote]

This.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Timur » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Arrakis, Falkrix, thanks for the info. 

Arrakis, i did send them an email once a while back, with no reply.  I'll try again.

Happy holidays
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cayden Nikaal » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:04 pm

I have a small issue here, adhesives. I'm in a school-owned apartment, in Ohio, in the winter...so my trusty DAP is kinda out. None of the stores around me, and I mean NONE, sell the double-sided duct tape (but one of them used to, lazy bums). I'm pretty much down to the spray adhesives, so which ones are recommended? I am making a min-red on a 1" sched 40 PVC core. Any help at all is appreciated.
"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the last day."
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Olren (Formerly Traugott) » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:32 pm

id like to know too. But because dap is flammable so i cant use it indoors or outdoors cause its too cold. will double sided duct tape hold up well? how about on a sandwich (layer)?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cayden Nikaal » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:37 pm

Noban, if you can find d-sided duct tape, it's pretty much all that Ebrod uses on his weapons (noticed you have Corvalin as your realm). My buddy also made a pole-axe with it, and it has held up so far, it was kinda sandwich style construction. But yeah, I'm pretty much down to spray adhesives...
"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the last day."
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Arrakis » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:27 pm

Spray adhesive is horrible horrible horrible to use indoors unless you have a garage and/or fume hood.  If you're at a school, use the spraypainting area in their art department/woodshop/wherever, if you can, and just DAP away.

Otherwise, seriously?  Indoor/Outdoor carpet tape can be found at every Wal-Mart, Lowes, and Home Depot in the country.  Get some.

If you really need Spray for something, though, I've found that Super 77 does a passable job, for stuff like shield faces, at least.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cayden Nikaal » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:13 pm

Ok, thanks. I was unsure of spray adhesives, don't really have access to a fume hood (although we had thought of making one), and I was unsure of the carpet tape 'cause I thought I had heard that it wasn't good for this application. 'Course, I just need it to last until it warms up...then I can use good 'ol Dap again.

Carpet tape it is!
"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the last day."
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Corilithon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:17 pm

I was browsing around in Walmart today and I noticed a stack of Ozark Trail stadium seat cushions, and my first thought was 'Hey, this could become stab tips.' Though when I felt it, it seemed to me like it was too squishy, though I've never handled Thermaseat foam either, so iI'm not sure.

Does anyone know if the Ozark Trail ones can stand up to stabbing? Compared to other sources of stab-worthy foam I'm likely to find it's a great deal cheaper, but that may be the problem.
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