Weapon Materials Guide

Building a weapon? Have a new design or helpful hint you would like to share? Please ask advice or give advice here!

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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Ethio di Firenze » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:13 pm

i made swords with only one layer of plumbing insulation (so far) they hurt like hell and ive already got a bruise  ;D and its my 2nd full day with them. what kind of fuam would work best for swords and where could i get it?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Sir Mirelle of Narnia » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:18 pm

[quote="Ethio"]
i made swords with only one layer of plumbing insulation (so far) they hurt like hell and ive already got a bruise  ;D and its my 2nd full day with them. what kind of fuam would work best for swords and where could i get it?
[/quote]

Ethio's read the first post all the foam info you need is right there.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Ethio di Firenze » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:57 pm

yeah but it doesnt say prices or anything >:(
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:10 pm

[quote="Ethio"]
yeah but it doesnt say prices or anything >:(
[/quote]
I've posted both what kind of foam and where to get it.  With both those pieces of information, you should be able to determine price on your own.  You may have to do some calling or googling, but you should be able to work it out.  Let me know honestly if you can't.

The reason I don't mention prices is because there can and will be differences in prices depending on where you live.  Additionally, I'm in no position to perpetually keep up to date with the prices of everything.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Gamer_Ely » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:18 pm

blue camp mat is about 4 or 5 something
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Antonis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:23 pm

[quote="Gamer_Ely"]
blue camp mat is about 4 or 5 something
[/quote]

5.86 a roll
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cassius » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:31 pm

[quote="Antonis"]5.86 a roll[/quote]
Price and participation may vary.  In the Grim Sword area it is $5.88.  Prices are not set at a national standard.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Lord Siegfried von Mann » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:39 pm

Yea you should really note that PVC gives recoil, I just made my 2-handed Sword out of PVC, its well made and everything, but when I swing it it recoils back against my swing and really starts hurting my arm a bit.

I got pretty good thickness as well, I'm probably going to fill the core of it with some glue like white glue or calking or something of the sort, just so I can get the sturdiness without the recoil.

The question I'm hitting is, is that from my stupidity, or is it from the PVC?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cassius » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:43 am

I have used alot of PVC weapons.  I have used a 4 and a half foot red sword and a 6 foot 4 inch pole axe, both made using PVC.  I have not had any problem with recoil or having it hurt my hands after continuous use.  I bet yours is either balanced poorly, or you have a poor swinging technique.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:55 am

It's been a while since I've fought with PVC.  What I HAVE noticed is that if your handle has no shock protection, you'll feel every blow you deliver and block.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Lord Siegfried von Mann » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:01 am

Hmm I can guarantee I'm not swinging incorrectly, its a 5.5 ft long sword. The balance is actually about an inch up the blade (used pennies in the base).

Its not the actual hitting that does it, but when doing like a baseball bat strength swing the pipe bends and flexes as its being swung which causes the recoil.

I assume that's an issue with the width of the pipe. It was the best width they had at Lowe's (Although they didn't have much variety).
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cassius » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:11 am

What is the width?  And it is thick or think walled?  That makes a world of difference.  And take Twolf's advice if you don't do it already, wrap the handle in something to absorb the shock.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Lord Siegfried von Mann » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:53 pm

[quote="Casimir (Aurgelmir)"]
What is the width?  And it is thick or think walled?  That makes a world of difference.  And take Twolf's advice if you don't do it already, wrap the handle in something to absorb the shock.
[/quote]

Nah its not the shock of when it hits or such, its the actual fact it throws me off balance, I'm expecting my sword to be in point A when I apply B force, but because of the recoil it has me off a bit. It actually counters itself partially when swung.

Honestly looking at it, its not as thick as it should be from reading other guides.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cassius » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:08 pm

[quote="Lord Siegfried von Mann"]Nah its not the shock of when it hits or such, its the actual fact it throws me off balance, I'm expecting my sword to be in point A when I apply B force, but because of the recoil it has me off a bit. It actually counters itself partially when swung.

Honestly looking at it, its not as thick as it should be from reading other guides.
[/quote]
That doesn't answer my question.  How this is it?
Also, from what you are describing, it sounds to be poorly balanced.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Lord Siegfried von Mann » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:36 pm

[quote="Casimir (Aurgelmir)"]
[quote="Lord Siegfried von Mann"]Nah its not the shock of when it hits or such, its the actual fact it throws me off balance, I'm expecting my sword to be in point A when I apply B force, but because of the recoil it has me off a bit. It actually counters itself partially when swung.

Honestly looking at it, its not as thick as it should be from reading other guides.
[/quote]
That doesn't answer my question.  How this is it?
Also, from what you are describing, it sounds to be poorly balanced.
[/quote]

Can't measure it or I would, but if I had to guess, its less than 1/8's of an inch thick.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cassius » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:47 pm

[quote="Lord Siegfried von Mann"]Can't measure it or I would, but if I had to guess, its less than 1/8's of an inch thick.[/quote]
I really hope you are talking about the thickness of the walls and not the inner diameter.  I am asking what the inner diameter of the PVC is (1/2" 3/4" 1" 1 1/4"), though it sounds like you are using the thin walled stuff, which is going to break easier and will flex like crazy and probably wouldn't even pass.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Lord Siegfried von Mann » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:55 pm

[quote="Casimir (Aurgelmir)"]
[quote="Lord Siegfried von Mann"]Can't measure it or I would, but if I had to guess, its less than 1/8's of an inch thick.[/quote]
I really hope you are talking about the thickness of the walls and not the inner diameter.  I am asking what the inner diameter of the PVC is (1/2" 3/4" 1" 1 1/4"), though it sounds like you are using the thin walled stuff, which is going to break easier and will flex like crazy and probably wouldn't even pass.
[/quote]

Yea not the actual inner diameter, but the walls. Yea its not my official dag weapon but just a sparring one.

The stupid label when I was purchasing the junk said x/2" or some such, and it was the thickest of the two options so I just grabbed it.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Cassius » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:28 am

[quote="Lord Siegfried von Mann"]Yea its not my official dag weapon but just a sparring one.[/quote]
These should be one and the same.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Lord Siegfried von Mann » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:50 am

[quote="Casimir (Aurgelmir)"]
[quote="Lord Siegfried von Mann"]Yea its not my official dag weapon but just a sparring one.[/quote]
These should be one and the same.
[/quote]

My Dag one is going to be fiberglass core, ozark camping foam. Which I'm still gathering the materials for, my sparring "Until I finish my dag one" is PVC pipe with pool noodle foam <.<
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Nikulás » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:51 pm

I dont know if this has been mentioned on here yet, but what is "marine foam" as mentioned inGvK's stabbing tip tutorial, and where can someone get it?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Uriel Zanost » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:44 pm

Is wally-world still carrying that kind of foam? And as a second question, is the raw foam from (mod edit- Voldemort) okay to use in dag?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:57 pm

Yeah, they still sell it back in the camping section.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:49 am

[quote=&quot;Nikulás&quot;]
I dont know if this has been mentioned on here yet, but what is "marine foam" as mentioned inGvK's stabbing tip tutorial, and where can someone get it?
[/quote]

[quote=&quot;Twolf&quot;]
Cabela's Thermaseat cushion or Dick's Sporting Goods stadium seating pad (2x) - A closed cell foam used in Guntar's Stabbing tip design.[/quote]
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Alric » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:06 am

[quote=&quot;Uriel Zanost&quot;]
Is wally-world still carrying that kind of foam? And as a second question, is the raw foam from (mod edit- Voldemort) okay to use in dag?
[/quote]

It's not terribly high quality foam, and it's also not very cheap.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:13 am

The only foam they use that I like is that 4-ply 'shield foam' but I think I'll pass on giving them support. Anyone know what that's called and where to get it?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Uriel Zanost » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:31 pm

Sorry...
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Gra'm » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:56 pm

Very good thread. Helped me tremendously, for I just got hooked on Dagorhir a few days ago. I will most likely use this as well as a few other weapon help threads when I make my first sword tomorrow.
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Re: Weapon Materials Tutorial/FAQ

Postby Kensii » Tue May 12, 2009 11:32 pm

[quote=&quot;Athron&quot;]
[quote=&quot;Kneefers&quot;]
You should mention Funnoodles in the foam section, too, because it breaks down a lot faster, but does have its uses, like for haft padding and quick and dirty swords when covered over in blue foam.
[/quote]

Presuming that this guide is best serving new people without immediate access to foamsmithing vets, I actually suggest emphasizing the inappropriateness of using funnoodle in almost every application.

The reason for this is two-fold:
(1) When people are new, they often look for the path of least resistance ("sweet, just throw a noodle on a stick!") and even though they HEAR the negatives, they aren't equipped with enough foamsmithing skill or weapon checking ability to actually understand the seriousness of the negatvie attributes of various building materials.  To use pool noodle appropriately and safely (especially as a striking surface), one must really understand the poor properties of funnoodle.  In time, as they devleop, they will later stumble into understanding when and where pool noodle is fine to use.

(2) Pool noodle actually varies greatly in quality.  There is some REALLY bad pool noodle (can't even be used as a temporary blue weapon), while there is some other stuff that is more dense with better closed-cell structure that certainly can make a striking surface safe for a reasonable duration.  Again, new people simply don't have the knowledge or ability yet to differentiate between 'good' 'okay' and 'terrible' pool noodle.
[/quote]

Well I am new and me and my friends use fun noodle and pipe insulation because its the only thing we have available what else would yall suggest that is safe, easy (or at least not difficult), and relatively cheap?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Wed May 13, 2009 5:21 am

Walmart camp pad. Commonly called blue foam. It's the mainstay in most of the weapons tutorials. That, and buy the contact cement by the quart or gallon.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Wed May 13, 2009 11:35 pm

But we looked all over walmart and didnt see this blue pad stuff what am I looking for does it say, "Blue Foam Pad" or something else. Keep in mind i live in dallas tx and we may have different stuff then yall do.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Thu May 14, 2009 12:04 am

It says Ozark Trail on it.

Have you asked a Walmart employee where their camping pads are?  If there's a camping section in your walmart, there's a decent chance that you'll find said foam.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Thu May 14, 2009 4:59 am

Usually on the same aisle as the air mattresses. Down low, as it's cheap.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Fri May 15, 2009 11:28 pm

Thanks guys ill look into it. Sorry for all the questions but one more: Why is fun noodle so looked down upon? I will admit I am new to this and I saw someone write that newbs dont have the knowledge top understand why fun noodle doesn;t work, so please enlighten me....
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Tycho Velius » Fri May 15, 2009 11:32 pm

It breaks down really fast and turns into something like a solid mass of plastic.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Fri May 15, 2009 11:51 pm

There can also be a huge variation in consistency in fun noodles.  Some might work decently, others simply don't work for anything.  If you're not familiar with how a foam should feel, then you probably shouldn't use a fun noodle as your first foam source.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Fri May 15, 2009 11:53 pm

So would you suggest the thicker noodle? (and this is only a last resort if I can't find the camping foam) or does it depend on the weapon type?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Sat May 16, 2009 12:03 am

I'd suggest giving it a try, but do it knowing full well that you may have wasted your money or that it may not last very long.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Sat May 16, 2009 12:18 am

Dually noted. Thanks.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Sat May 16, 2009 5:06 am

Best in-store test for noodle, but still not fool-proof: squeeze hard between thumb and finger. Should feel firm and bounce back. Must not hear POP of collapsing cells. Still bad idea for new folks lacking foamsmithing skills. That said, Cold's 'lightsaber' is quite old, still safe and has only needed repair once. This stuff is wildly inconsistent
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Sun May 17, 2009 12:53 am

me and a friend went to wal mart today and found the foam yall were talking about but after looking at the price we were more inclined to buy noodle and we did, its just that i really do prefer noodle will I not be able to fight if I use noodle at rag?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Sun May 17, 2009 12:18 pm

You'll quickly find out amongst yourselves how well that foam works out for you.  Remember that a weapon isn't supposed to hurt or sting for more than a couple seconds.  Nor should you be able to feel the core through the foam.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kensii » Sun May 17, 2009 3:35 pm

it doesnt sting though and its so thick u can;t feel the core...why am i doing this? You guys are the vets, im gonna go try walmart foam....
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Halbrust » Sun May 17, 2009 9:27 pm

Walmart blue foam is usually $5.88.
If it's much more than that, it's the wrong stuff.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Mon May 18, 2009 6:12 am

Like at least two of us have mentioned, noodle is wildly inconsistent. We've not seen your weapons, nor have we felt them. Therefore we can't tell you whether they'd pass or not. We CAN say with relative cerainty that they're not likely to last. Had you bought the bluefoam and followed the tutorials, you'd have made a weapon just about guaranteed to pass and likely to last. Noodle's cell walls are usually too brittle.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Thu May 21, 2009 2:13 pm

Updated to include a mention of double sided duct tape, something that a few others mentioned using to success.  If people start using it and end up having serious safety problems with it, I'll remove it.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Kendall » Thu May 21, 2009 5:33 pm

I know gorilla glue is out, but what about gorilla brand wood glue?
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby stylgar » Thu May 21, 2009 6:05 pm

Not for foam-to-foam, especially on striking sections of blades. Wood glues turn hard and crunchy. Contact cement is what you want. We've also tried Liquid Nails for Projects. Turns hard and brittle and fails. Not like weapons-check fails, but structurally fails. Stops adhering and the two bits of foam peel apart leaving little tan rocks. Just like wood glue. Buy the DAP by quart or gallon.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Fri May 22, 2009 12:03 am

Actually for foam-to-core, gorilla glue may be alright.  But not for foam-to-foam layers.  I'm experimenting on a repair for one now.  We'll see later.
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Zebulon » Thu May 28, 2009 9:22 am

Blain's Farm & Fleet also carry the 3/8" 4' FG rods. As well as 11/16" 6' FG rods.  Although I don't believe they have any shipping so you'll have to be local to them.

They currently are having a sale on the 3/8" rods $0.99 until 6/14/09
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Re: Weapon Materials Guide

Postby Twolf » Thu May 28, 2009 10:13 am

Which is in the Wisconsin/Illinois/Iowa area.  A good regional find, Zebulon.
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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