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Please Read "Chicks" and "Women" (PC Orc is PC)

... I fight in a skirt... I didn't realize there was an issue with fighting in a skirt. I do it because it helps prevent swamp nuts though which women don't have to worry about.

I only care about the letter of the law.

How do the average Dagorhirrim suggest a scenario?

First you say "Ducky, I want to run battle X on day Y".

Then you run battle X on day Y. : )

Also, for non-rez battles;

Dead people need to get the **** off of the field. It's a pain in the ass trying to sort out who is dead and who is legged. It's a pain in the ass trying to fight without cold-cocking a dead person in the head or trampling them. If you're dead then GTFO!

No one wants to lie on the ground for twenty minutes waiting for the fight to end. No one should be expected to, either. Right now that means that during no-rez battles we end up with hundreds of waist high speed-bumps holding their swords to their heads and being in the way. That has to stop. If you die then get off the field, get some water, and get out of people's way.

Rules as written don't say that. 6.2 - When killed, scream and fall to a prone position on the ground. There used to be references to a "Dead Roll" I thought but I don't see it anymore. It doesn't say When you Die get the hell off the field.

I still like the idea of metal armor stopping a single arrow hit. It confers an advantage to heavy armor, It doesn't break arching, or melee for that matter. Let dudes in plate have their boromir moment.

I love the idea of taking a shot to my shoulder and still being able to fight. My torso armor is gone I have an arrow sticking out of me, and I'm still fighting. I think that would make for some epic moments all around.

To be fair urchin's head is the most spherical head I have ever seen.

"Dude has never seen your Junk Maggot."

(Maggot produces his Junk, Thalon looks away)

Other Guy to Thalon: "Dude Look at his Penis!"

MOVED

Some people thought the checkers were looking for fail spots, when in actuality they were looking for passing spots. Simple matter of communication. Might I suggest next year the checkers mumble pass fail as they run the calipers over the armor so the owners know what's up?

That's essentially what I was doing, and I don't know of any other checkers that were trying to fail passing armor. Sometimes I had to check a piece six, seven, eight times to find a single passing place.

Look, if we wanted to fail armor, I could have easily failed 90% of the leather I checked. Going by the letter of the MOA, I could have simply put the calipers on one place, and when it read less than 3/16", said "FAIL" and moved on to the next piece or person. And I bet you green American money I can find a thin spot on damned near every piece of leather I touch.

This year, we came into check with the idea that we'd check a couple places, and, if it was clear that the leather used was actually 9 to 11 ounce stuff, we'd fail the piece. About five people into armor check on Monday morning, it became painfully obvious that damned near nobody in Dagorhir is building leather armor from leather that is actually 3/16" thick. I saw readings on the calipers of 5/32" and 11/64" WAAAAAAAY more than I ever saw them reading 3/16" or greater. If we'd kept doing what we started off wanting to do, we'd have failed at least half the armor we checked.

As it ended up working, we'd check and check and check and check until we found one or two places that were thicker than average, and gave us 3/16". For example, there was a guy who showed up wearing a lamellar skirt made from Tandy's pre-punched scales: http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/44228-25.aspx

Says right there that they're made from 9-10oz leather. I KNOW this, and I knew what they were as soon as I saw them. But, in the interests of getting armor on the field and reducing butthurt, I checked ten scales on that guy's skirt until I found a thick one, and passed it.

And, let me tell you, my morning would have gone a hell of a lot faster if I'd simply failed stuff that measured below spec. So anyone trying to argue that we were looking to fail armor can suck it.

(Lawful Neutral OCD) **** That! Seriously? Follow that goddamned rules. I don't give a **** if people get butt hurt. The dude who checked my armor **** bricks because it was so ****ing thick he looked at it and knew it passed. If you can't afford to build passing armor YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE ARMOR! Get this **** off the field. The only way we will have people building real armor is to enforce the rules. If you want to change the rules fine, I will not complain. But as it stands **** getting more armor on the field and start getting LEGAL armor on the field.

You know how hard it is to add a layer of thiner leather to make Legal thickness? NOT HARD. I Agonize over every inch of my armor to make sure it passes. I'm offended that people get a pass on their ****ty armor because people don't want to fail it.

I'll run armor check next year, **** on it. It's about time we start following the rules of our own game. This p**** footed bull**** needs to stop. Rag is our Superbowl, come with your game face, and legal gear or get the **** out.

Edit: Please imagine this whole rant as being screamed with a mouth full of blood and Rage Foam.

I'm making a Bright Pink Belt with 'THIS IS ALL PRETEND" written on it and Calling myself a Most Esteemed Warlord, and Only people with that Title can wear Bring Pink Belts with "THIS IS ALL PRETEND" written on it. You Can Attain this Title in dag by calling yourself a Most Esteemed Warlord, and Making Bright PRINK BELT WITH "THIS IS ALL PRETEND" Written on it.

It's like I always said "I'm glad your a fake knight in a pretend world. I'm a fake Orc in a prentend world you jelly?"

That being said If you check 6 spots and 4 pass Thats cool. If more than half of the armor is ****, it needs to be failed.

Some people thought the checkers were looking for fail spots, when in actuality they were looking for passing spots. Simple matter of communication. Might I suggest next year the checkers mumble pass fail as they run the calipers over the armor so the owners know what's up?

That's essentially what I was doing, and I don't know of any other checkers that were trying to fail passing armor. Sometimes I had to check a piece six, seven, eight times to find a single passing place.

Look, if we wanted to fail armor, I could have easily failed 90% of the leather I checked. Going by the letter of the MOA, I could have simply put the calipers on one place, and when it read less than 3/16", said "FAIL" and moved on to the next piece or person. And I bet you green American money I can find a thin spot on damned near every piece of leather I touch.

This year, we came into check with the idea that we'd check a couple places, and, if it was clear that the leather used was actually 9 to 11 ounce stuff, we'd fail the piece. About five people into armor check on Monday morning, it became painfully obvious that damned near nobody in Dagorhir is building leather armor from leather that is actually 3/16" thick. I saw readings on the calipers of 5/32" and 11/64" WAAAAAAAY more than I ever saw them reading 3/16" or greater. If we'd kept doing what we started off wanting to do, we'd have failed at least half the armor we checked.

As it ended up working, we'd check and check and check and check until we found one or two places that were thicker than average, and gave us 3/16". For example, there was a guy who showed up wearing a lamellar skirt made from Tandy's pre-punched scales: http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/44228-25.aspx

Says right there that they're made from 9-10oz leather. I KNOW this, and I knew what they were as soon as I saw them. But, in the interests of getting armor on the field and reducing butthurt, I checked ten scales on that guy's skirt until I found a thick one, and passed it.

And, let me tell you, my morning would have gone a hell of a lot faster if I'd simply failed stuff that measured below spec. So anyone trying to argue that we were looking to fail armor can suck it.

(Lawful Neutral OCD) **** That! Seriously? Follow that goddamned rules. I don't give a **** if people get butt hurt. The dude who checked my armor **** bricks because it was so ****ing thick he looked at it and knew it passed. If you can't afford to build passing armor YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE ARMOR! Get this **** off the field. The only way we will have people building real armor is to enforce the rules. If you want to change the rules fine, I will not complain. But as it stands **** getting more armor on the field and start getting LEGAL armor on the field.

You know how hard it is to add a layer of thiner leather to make Legal thickness? NOT HARD. I Agonize over every inch of my armor to make sure it passes. I'm offended that people get a pass on their ****ty armor because people don't want to fail it.

I'll run armor check next year, **** on it. It's about time we start following the rules of our own game. This p**** footed bull**** needs to stop. Rag is our Superbowl, come with your game face, and legal gear or get the **** out.

Edit: Please imagine this whole rant as being screamed with a mouth full of blood and Rage Foam.

The camp-bunny numbers were through the roof this year!

I think that's going to come with growth, unavoidably. Last year we had 15 fighters and three non-combatants. This year we had 24 fighters and nine non-combatants. Next year I expect more of both again.

As we attract more fighters, they're going to bring with them their wives, girlfriends, and so forth. Ours were terribly helpful, cooking, doing laundry, camp chores, helping with heralding, multiple medics, and many other very useful things.

If there's a problem, it's not with non-coms in general, it's with the fighters they're coming with not setting appropriate expectations. Ours all knew they needed to be garbed, etc. We had only one that didn't want to get with the program, and she won't be back next year.

People need to police their own.

When nerds get significant others and want to go to camp outs with them, they need to keep them entertained or they will no longer be going to camp outs. The almighty 'V' trumps dork battle. Keep the non coms happy and your coms will stop having to make that very difficult choice. It's science!!

I think we need a new thread on Non-coms and Campout events.

I will cut you if you don't make me one.

Wow Just think A patch of Rabbit fur I shot myself now resides on the Cloak of THE ONE AND ****ING ONLY BLACKHAWK. I remember when I was little and Got my first Album I though It was amazing it change my life... No wait that was Alice Cooper, Blackhawk did fail my flail once for being orange though I guess that counts.

Shot to the spine is a bad Idea i agree. However dane I don't think you have ever really fought Dag if you think that 2 handed greens never hit an unarmored back. when you are in the position to back stab people and are actually fighting you don't always stop and think "oh wait this guy isn't wearing armor I should take the other hand of my green"

Weapons check is to check weapons for safety in the manner they are used. Are daggers used 2 handed? Sometimes so they should be checked that way. I don't ever want to go to an event you're a weapons checker.

Dredge i dont think you understand this. And had you asked Dane he could have shown you. Maybe i will make a video for you.

Stabbing with 1 hand and hip motion hits a HELL OF A LOT HARDER then stabbing with two hands firmly placed on a blade.

Oh oh oh, Okay No I totally get it now. Your right I was missing his point.

Dude, I think you're missing what Dane was saying.  It's ok, Blackhawk listened to our complaints about how green tips were being checked.  He's on it.

Thrush
berserk

Sorry I get grouchy.

Shot to the spine is a bad Idea i agree. However dane I don't think you have ever really fought Dag if you think that 2 handed greens never hit an unarmored back. when you are in the position to back stab people and are actually fighting you don't always stop and think "oh wait this guy isn't wearing armor I should take the other hand of my green"

Weapons check is to check weapons for safety in the manner they are used. Are daggers used 2 handed? Sometimes so they should be checked that way. I don't ever want to go to an event you're a weapons checker.

Don't get Security Camp started on the rookie level drinking this year...  Sorry you got puked on, don't bring rookies to Rag!

Thrush
berserk

Ain't that the truth. It was okay He watched himself the rest of the event.

1. Don't hit test flats. They're not padded for striking, just like incidental padding isn't padded for striking. They're padded to protect people when mistakes happen. Should we start jacking people in the eye for pommel check?

2. Two-handed overhand stabs into the spine are a pretty awful way to check stabbing tips. I saw this a lot, and it was horrifying. We don't check one-handed blues with two-handed swings on someone's unpadded knuckles; why would we go axe-murderer on someone's spinal column? One-handed stabbing weapons should be checked with one-handed stabs with good hip rotation and not in the spine. It stabs plenty hard and doesn't rearrange vertebrae, and it's also how people actually use the weapon on the field.

Are you serious? You Know a 2 handed Dagger shot is a legal move and Ignores armor and happens quite often in dag fighting right?

What's the situation with getting vehicles back there? Can we drive back to the camping areas? Can we tow a trailer back?

Is there flat cleared space for a couple 16x32 tents?

Any amenities yet? Water? Power?

How far is the site from the nearest place to get ice, etc.?

Any ban on amplified music?

Actually I'd like to know the answer to these myself.

The Good:
-Got a chance to get away from work and relax
-Saw an Improvement in garb
-Loved that armor was actually checked

The Bad
-Not Enough Weapons Checkers. Friday Myself and the rest of Dragon Claw opened up a 4th line to get weapons checked faster, I was also shocked at people not stepping up for back volunteers. Want faster weapons check? Pitch in.
-Some of the armor check seemed to be based on nothing rather than the guidelines that were put in place. I saw people with failed gear that really should have passed.

The Ugly:
My buddy getting so **** faced on the first night I had to get guys from camp to help carry him, resulting in getting covered in puke myself.

If I can get off I'm thinking about coming to this. I don't know about anyone else from my unit, But I'm willing to help out with weapons or armor check. I'm really getting in to the the whole "Travel Dag" mode and would like to see other events.

I sure as hell could chop through a wooden shield with 2 hatchets, in about 20 minutes of it not moving and trying to hit me back. Even the 2 hits from a red rule is kind of silly from a realistic stand point, but it's playable and works. Just please please please don't post a thread about making plates last for 3 hits, or arrow blocking. They norming come in threes with ideas like this.

SCA does this with new fighters, it's called calibration.

...
tl;dr: the only allusions that are clearly referring to PRECISELY what we're talking about, all seem to indicate the 17th century version. The ellis text sounds different from the bespectacled,virtually anthropomorphic bird-mask.

Ah see I can't give you that. Actually based on my feverish reading of plague related wiki articles I believe that the bird mask as we know it now is 17th. One of the articles had a image of an engraving depicting an earlier plague doctor and the beak mask looked to just be a beak over the nose and mouth not a full face mask.

Also any idiot could have been a plague doctor the only requirements seem to be thinking you knew what you were doing and taking peoples money for doing it.

Fourteenth century plague doctors who wore a bird-like mask were referred to as "beak doctors".[6][7][8] where are you getting your information there is the damn direct quote and citations again.

http://weirdthings.com/2009/05/creepy-bird-masks-of-the-14th-century/

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/plague.htm

Just saying even googling plague doctor comes up with references to the masks being used durring the 1350s

Fourteenth century plague doctors who wore a bird-like mask were referred to as "beak doctors".[6][7][8] Straps held the beak in front of the doctor's nose.[9]

9 Being the citation to a credible source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor_costume

sorry linked the wrong page, And I was wrong 14th century They appeared around 1350.

There is your source. Took me like 2 min to find that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_of_Venice Examples can be found as far back as the 13th century.

No Orcs (Edited for courtesy.)

Charles de Lorme adopted in 1619 the idea of a full head-to-toe protective garment,[17] modeled after a soldier's armour.[18] This consisted of not only the bird-like mask, but of a long leather (Moroccan or Levantine)[18] or waxed-canvas gown which was from the neck to the ankle.[17] The over-clothing garment, as well as leggings, gloves, boots, and a hat, were made of waxed leather.[19] The garment was impregnated with similar fragrant items as the beak mask.[20]
This popular seventeenth century poem describes the plague doctor's costume.[1][21]

As may be seen on picture here,
In Rome the doctors do appear,
When to their patients they are called,
In places by the plague appalled,
Their hats and cloaks, of fashion new,
Are made of oilcloth, dark of hue,
Their caps with glasses are designed,
Their bills with antidotes all lined,
That foulsome air may do no harm,
Nor cause the doctor man alarm,
The staff in hand must serve to show
Their noble trade where'er they go.[22]

Is 1619 really what we're going for as Dagorhir?



Or do these predate that?  I made no effort to research beyond reading numbers.

The masks were used in the 13th century during the Black Death. So yeah they fit.

If dag still used healers, I would love to see this on the field. Sadly for some Dag has become fighter centric character/RP have become thin. But then again there is still fighting so I'm cool.

Looks like from most of the people who actually know what they are talking about you are getting a big yes. I think it's a cool idea, keep it as accurate as possible and you will get no guff from me or most of the hard core history buffs. I have no ****ing clue as to why anyone would think you'd be wearing this to scare someone, other then they see you and expect the plague to be following in your wake (which is totally bad ass).

one timid 30lb 4 foot nothing girl

stop letting overly tall 4 year olds fight.

Hey if they have a Rag tag I don't ask questions.

I mostly agree with that, but I have in my time seen more than one timid 30lb 4 foot nothing girl pressured on to the field by Friend/Boy friend/Group and I can't bring myself to rail them. There is a difference between fighters and most times you can tell who's really out there to fight, who's out there to goof off (make them Wish They weren't on the field...), and People who have no idea what they are doing/scared ****less and let me tell you a fully armored 270 pounds of dreadge bearing down on someone 1/3 my size looks a little over the top, so I'll pull my swing and not break them. Because I want them to want to come back out if they have fun, There is a difference between fighting hard and being a bully.

If you went with a more historically accurate one It should be because those masks were used around the 13th century. However That example looks suspiciously SteamPunk



While yes they kind of look like birds The idea was that the plague couldn't travel up a tube on the front of the mask, they made it long to avoid getting sick (obviously didn't work lol) But the example you have up there is wrong in about a hundred ways. If you want to go for the above look just get a bird shaped helmet, if you want to do an actual plague doctor go for it, there are about a million resources you can look up.

Working on a new strap heater shield, wishing I had a bigger drill bit.

I think most men feel this way at some point.

I **** you not, I had one dude poke my armor and said "Yup looks like armor." and that was it.

Precisely my point. That's what's being done, so let's just codify it and move on.

I'm on board with this, If you need a hand checking leather I have a thickness gauge and plenty of experience.

I can, and will, have that data at War Council Monday night. What I won't have is copies of it for everyone, but I can give a quick executive summary to back up my points when I present the proposal.

What I can tell you is that NO event I have ever attended (and I'm not a Dag world traveler, but I'm also not only playing in upstate NY) has done anything remotely resembling a comprehensive armor check. The armor check I've witnessed at EVERY major event I've gone to over the last four years (Rag, Gates of Fire, Badon Hill, Father Christmas) as well as day battles in Novi Antiqui, Tartarus Invictus, Lostwithiel, Angaron, and, from what other Legion folks have reliably reported to me, Aratari, Taurendor, and Anvard, have consisted of a checker visually inspecting the armor as worn, then running their hands down it looking for protrusions/sharps, and pronouncing it passing.

I **** you not, I had one dude poke my armor and said "Yup looks like armor." and that was it. It pisses me off because I actually build my armor to pass. I mean I obsess over ever gap and stud, even though its all ugly orc armor I take a lot of pride in what I do.

NP, Reshaping a breast plate is easy.

Riddles in the Dark.

We are based on tolkien, pockets are fine.

VERY GOOD! DUDE seriously I feel stupid for not having thought of that... Of course I play an orc... pockets are for hobbits, and other food sources.

Just finished painting up my new helm.

Dude Come see me At Dragon Claw's Camp, I will bring my stuff and flex that breast plate in for you.

Thats cool man. Hopefully it inspires more new guys to get more involved in all the aspects of being awesome at Dag/Dgame.

I'm not mad, just think we need to keep a closer eye on stuff at RWC this year, after the shady voting of last year. And this guy was a result of that.

Hence the changes I listed in my post to hopefully avoid any shady voting this year.

-this guy

My New Goal is to change my Name to Shady and be our rep in 2013.

You know thrush, for as long as I have known you, this relevantly recent interest in historical accuracy is really inspiring, no lie.

I'M ANGRY TOO!! GGRRRRR WEB BOARDS!

Since this will be my first actual event what kind of things should I bring?

What Most New Guys bring to Rag:

Cooking oil to use instead of sunscreen.

Winter Coat.

Cans of soup, but no can opener or spoon (so you have to wander around asking for these things).

As Little cash as possible.

Booze (if your old enough) to trade for food.

Poorly made weapons.

Half a roll of duct tape.

Thats what I see a lot of from first timers. This extends to most week end long camping events as well.

I have no fear of it, It can't break my shield, you can't throw an effective shoulder shot with it, I get my shield in front of it and blow you to pieces. A red weapon I try and do the same, but then an effective red fighter will take my shield down, and better fighter with a blue and throw 20 shots for 2 of yours with the staff. To be honest that weapon makes you a target, an easy target. I have zero honor (in character, not as far as the game goes), I pick weak fighters, If I'm out matched I try and hold out til I get back up. I see that weapon out there, I've found my weak target. If you look back over all my 200+ posts you will never find a post in which I tell someone I could rule them, this is the exception. The Quaterstaff is a bad weapon choice. Want something new? Make a red and learn to use it well, Or a spear. Mind you I'm not picking on you or what you want to do, I'm trying to give you some good advice.

I have no problem with Anime, I have a problem with people making ****ty weapons (the above is well made and I'm not talking about OP) and acting like ********s on the field. Some of the stuff I've seen Anime guys do makes me cringe, The only thing worse is the ICP Fanboys who don't really wants to fight they just jump around and act like ****ing tools. There have been some cool anime based stuff over the years that I have seen, the problem is that it kills most credibility for the player because of the people who do retarded stuff with it. It's a game/sport/larp/Fairy princess tickle fight and it should be fun but about 10 years ago when that guy showed up dressed like goku ****ing ruined my whole day. /rant

Honestly, and this comes up a lot, The problem with quatrerstaves is that the actual use of them is really hard to learn. Most of the moves you would learn in a martial arts class do not transfer to dag style fighting. There are about 600 other reasons but really it's just the weapon doesn't work well in dag. I'm sure there is 1 guy in 200 who could probably do okay with one, but I have never come up against one that could take me out while I've gone S/B, Thats not bragging, because honestly a 12 year old with a single blue could take me out, that just tells you how bad the weapon is over all.