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If the armour passed check its good. If you don't like how it looks get over it. This games needs too be more inclusive not less. And if you think telling someone to get off the feild for no reason other then how they look is not exclusion you've taken a few too many hits to the head.

You can do it. But it is real easy to hurt your self or some one else. In six years I've done it about 4 times.  So once in a blue moon at an event to pull something crazy? Sure. At practice just don't do it.

I try to grab their weapon hand. Then I pull gard and take the fight on the ground. I hold on to the weapon and use it to manipulate that limb. Its a way to work around the rule aginst joint manipulation by not actually manipulateing their joint. You move their weapon and if they don't let go the arm goes along. And also most everyone will lose their grip long before their arm can become injured. It is much less likely to cause one.

The fact is in the past people had to be aggressive to do any thing. And the people who where on the front lines of an attack often died.  If a whole group is only thinking about staying alive as individuals they wont do much.

I think we need more and stronger heralds. We need a lot more than I see and a lot of people who do don't want to make calls and risk looking like a Dick. Not sure about a soulution though. Work with all volunteers and you get what you get.

The problem is that we frequently die in places we don't want to lie down. The dead should not speak to the living, that should be watched. As to the rest, if you run to spawn you'll get tired faster. If you try to sneek in to an opponents lines, you can not lie. So you should get caught and killed. One thing we could do is have less endless unlimeted spawn battles.

I'd run two practices. One during the week on campus. And one on the weekend in a park. You'll get numbers bro.

I would like to see a sling that worked. And would not mind if they could damage armor. Remember they also slung lead shots at eachother. And half a pound of lead going 60 mph is not going to feel good.

It's a balancing act.  More foam does not make a weapon safer. But beter foam will. Also the stiffness of the core has more to do with impact (In my oppinion) than just weight. If the core is good and flexy, it has less power behind the hit.  But I think we should reduse the toatal weight of the weapons, if nothing else I would only need one set of Javs, insteed of having one for dag events and one for bell.

I run my local chapter. I provide most of the weapons. I set when and where we meet. I teach newbies the game and talk to the strangers and media people when they walk up. I take care of our (very little, because seriously?) paperwork. I make sure we pick up our trash before we go. I keep the pot out of our group and give Stern Looks and an occasional Talk to fighters who sluff shots a bit much or throw one too many headshots.

And ya know what? I'm not that important. My guys can go a week without me. And they did.

Be honest Ian, you're not that important either.

It's got to do with keys and cars. Getting in, getting out.  Also I can only take about a week off work a year, so I split it between two events. When I look at an event I want to take as many of my people with me as possibal. Usualy we manage to organize well enough that we can take a few people with us that can not afford an event.  If I speant all my event money for the year on one event that I could not take others with me (We have discused it) then my group is somewhat dimminished.  Also everytime I have taken off for a event I've ended up trying to do something from several states away. Fun times right>

That's why I like the idea of having a few events with ofical counsles. It would build up population at that event (realms that could never make rag would make a real effort to show up). As to being able to make rag. I don't want to travle unless I can bring my realm with me. I don't like to leave them hanging for two weeks.  A fair few other leaders I know feel the same way.

hi there! Were you aware that you were in an adult forum? Cause... damn!
OR
I choose you Picachoooooooo!

No. Most of my weapons and kingdom planets are mixed. I run sometimes four practices a week. Getting weapons and paperwork out can be problematice. In Springfield thanks to the park board, only a few people can run them. Its problems. And I don't want to go to an event without my friends dude.

What do you mean?

It's gonna be some work if you want to go that route, my grizzled old friend.  The potential for abuse is so huge, you're going to have to do all of the following to ensure that things stay legit:

1) Keep track of active memberships across ALL realms, utilizing check-in records from national events.  This way you know that a realm which is voting online isn't fabricating their numbers and aren't just two 18 year olds in a basement somewhere, OR aren't the remnants of a realm that is now totally defunct.

2) Consider having a speaking/voting status requirement, like I had mentioned in a different thread, to limit the potential for voting abuse.  For example, if a bunch of people split into 4-5 realms all within a half hour of each other, in order to secure a handful of votes online.  Having the RWC vote on who can and can't vote would potentially police this.

The online system in Bel seems to work, but only because they keep track of how many people are "active" in each realm, who has speaking rights, and who has voting rights.  You can lose the right to vote if you don't keep up with active membership.  So when a realm goes defunct, it loses its vote.  And when a brand new realm starts up, they aren't automatically guaranteed a vote yet.  These rules limit the potential for abuse, especially when you're online and can't necessary see the people voting face to face.

That's why I like the idea of having a few events with ofical counsles. It would build up population at that event (realms that could never make rag would make a real effort to show up). As to being able to make rag. I don't want to travle unless I can bring my realm with me. I don't like to leave them hanging for two weeks.  A fair few other leaders I know feel the same way.

I'd like us to move the counsle away from just rag. Have an event in the Midwest where it sits. One in the south and one in the west. Manet even a special forum on the boards (limited to counsle members) so that all of us can have a say. Who thinks that will happen this side of hell?

RWC has binding authority only at Ragnarok. While the MOA is the de facto standard, it so only because Ragnarok is the largest event in Dagorhir. In theory Ragnarok is supposed to be a cooperative effort between all realms present. If a given realm isn't present at a given event, then they aren't participating in running the event, and therefore shouldn't be at RWC by proxy.

If you want to help organize large events in the south, midwest, west, Canada, or Mongolia, you are allowed and encouraged to do so by DBGA. Likewise, you can experiment with rule changes at events, so long as the rule changes are not extensive enough to turn the game into something other than Dagorhir.

And you are giving all the power over rules changes to one part of the country. People west of the Mississippi have a very hard time trying to get to rag. Also trying to get there every year?  Also if we had official WC at other events around the country we would build up three or four more events. Adding mabey a hundred fighters or more to the events. Also I think if we don't do something like this. In ten or so years we might be looking at Dag, bell, and something else. Should we fracture? People don't like not being represented. They don't like that most of the rule changes have to do with garb, or weapon covers, or other piddily stuff. What's your solution to this problem?

Get a good stiff shield. Get used to the thing. That will help protect you. Practice on your own (use a telephone pole and a special stick) beat the hell out of it. Take some time off just to practice. Then come back and just play block strike with some of the lighter bitters. Just do that for a while. When you take the field again, just swing for the fences. Don't be nice. Don't hold back. Beat the hell out of them. Or get a bow and arch. Ether way don't quit. Fight.

I haven't quit. I don't want to, but I'm demoralized. I just don't want to fight anymore. I'm going to force myself to, though.
I'm fairly certain that she isn't in this state anymore, much less able to attend practice...so I don't really have anything to worry about, but I still keep worrying. :/

It's about building confadance. And getting her to cut lose and fight as hard as she can. I just gusseing but I think she might be afraid of to hurt people. And so she's not swinging hard enough.

One of my guys built a hevey quarter staff. He straps on a buckler. Used the staff as a shield. And could stab with it. He is a big guy (and that helps) but he was very successful with it.

Who cares what Colorado the cover is? Is the weapon safe? That's all that should matter.

I'd like us to move the counsle away from just rag. Have an event in the Midwest where it sits. One in the south and one in the west. Manet even a special forum on the boards (limited to counsle members) so that all of us can have a say. Who thinks that will happen this side of hell?

Get a good stiff shield. Get used to the thing. That will help protect you. Practice on your own (use a telephone pole and a special stick) beat the hell out of it. Take some time off just to practice. Then come back and just play block strike with some of the lighter bitters. Just do that for a while. When you take the field again, just swing for the fences. Don't be nice. Don't hold back. Beat the hell out of them. Or get a bow and arch. Ether way don't quit. Fight.

Used properly, anything can cut someone.

Paper, Whisper's whit, Ducky McFeelgood's peni...

i think you meant to finish that with "Ducky McFeelgood peninsula sized cock"

I was going to let you finish first.  You always do. 

What the **** kind of buckles are you using that are going to cut someone?

http://zelikovitz.com/ebay-images/roller-buckles/Center-
Bar-Roller-Buckle-half-inch-Nickel-Plated.jpg
...when I think buckle I think that.

Any metal buckle can do it. If its hitting skin or thin cloth. How many of us fight shirtless?

How many of us wrap our greaved legs around someone's naked torso?  Aside from Ducky that is.

None of us do. Because a person wearing armor can not start a grapple. If they could it would happen all the time.  You wrap them up when your useing Ju-Jits-Ju

What the **** kind of buckles are you using that are going to cut someone?

http://zelikovitz.com/ebay-images/roller-buckles/Center-
Bar-Roller-Buckle-half-inch-Nickel-Plated.jpg
...when I think buckle I think that.

Any metal buckle can do it. If its hitting skin or thin cloth. How many of us fight shirtless?

Try a new weapon set. Something you never use. It can knock you out of a rut.

It ducks but it happens. You'll always get lower turnout in the cold. So to some degree you'll bounce back in the spring.  Other than that planing a event can help. Even if there is not a good national event you can make. Just have a cook out with your realm. Give them some notice and they'll show up. And come spring recruit recruit recruit.

We play a kind a capture the flag.  The flag is in the middle. When a team scores a herald puts a new one into play immediately. No stop of play. We either play to a score (5 usually for us) or for a set time.

Hey man.  I've built up my group from two guys over the last few years and this is what I can tell you.  First of all don't try to push ANYTHING on them. If they don't want to do non fighting drills do try to make them, you will lose them.  The best thing to do to make your pratice more meaningfull is to make the fights hard on everyone. What I liked to do was take two new fighters and have them fight one vet. Or two on three, or whatever.  The point is to put one side with a skill advantage, and one side with numbers.  One thing I did do was at the end of practise we whould do a kind of Iron man. One guy fights everyone one on one. And everyone has to be that guy.  Then we say around and talked about what worked, what did not. And what we could do as individuals to improve.
Rock on, Kick ass, and get better.

Make a glaive.  Not to great right on the front lines.  But on the short flank it can be a power weapon.  I can actualy use a sixfooter as a primary weapon in anysituation execpet the front lines of a sheild wall. 

If he grabed YOU as you hit eachother he started a grapple.  If you grabed HIM (Even if refexivaly) you started a grapple. If no one grabed anyone it was a body check.

But what about metal greaves or bracers?

My first thought is that I've never seen people wearing metal greaves or braces without torso armor.

My second thought is that if the armor fits well, we already dont allow interlocking joints, so they really shouldn't hurt too badly.  If some idiot fighter is wearing plate bracers for the sole purpose of swinging them around to power-grapple people, I'd kick him off the field for being an idiot unsafe.

My thought (I grapple alot) is that the buckles on the greaves are the danger zone.  When I take someone down I usualy end up on bottom.  I wrap my legs around their body to gain control and then take the mount.  BUT if I was wearing my greaves and they were barechested I could cut them pretty badly with the metal buckles on them.

Okay, lets start this off. The First post is the rules as they are.

I think there are some changes we can make to improve this, and I would like to hear what you all have to say about the subject so a proposal can be reached.

i will begin with 4.9.7. I think grappling people with bows and arrows is dangerous, and that section of that rule should be removed. Grappling someone with the most unsafe items on the field is really really dangerous. Opinions?

i'd also like to expand 4.9.2 to allowed for a teir system for armored grappling. Olos suggested this in another thread a while back. Basically armor would be set on a latter, with unarmored on the bottom, then leather, then chain, then plate. The idea being that you can initiate up the latter, but not down. So leather could grapple other people in leather, people in chain, and people in plate plate, but not unarmored people. Plate could never initiate grapple. Chain could grapple chain and plate, but not leather or unarmored. Seem like an interesting idea? Opinions?

4.9.3 should also be removed. If we require people to do it in a safe take down anyway, why worry how far they run before they do that, not to mention that its completely never been enforced. I've seen plenty of people run up on someone, grab them, and then safely take them down.

4.9.4 also is slightly pointless for this same reason.

things i don't have ideas already for are Body Checks. I thing doing this if your unarmored is awesome, I find it potentially unsafe if the guy is wearing plate. there are alot of what if's with this and I'd like to see what you all think.

thats what I got so far. let me know what you think. and flame on in three, two.....

Ok.  So I grapple a great deal, and I agree with most of what was said. But I think that a person wearing armor that has ANY metal (Including buckles or D rings) should still not be alowed to initiate a grapple with a unarmored person.  The reason being that the metal is very likely to cause scrapes or cuts to a person.  As to the body checks I think that if you are wearing metal armor you should not be alowed to do this under any conditions.  Just bash with your sheild. 
As to grappling an archer. I'm not sure.  I can be very dangerus, but only if the archer has their arrows on their belt.  In that case almost any take down can drive a knock into some one else. (I'm somewhat less worried about the bow it's self, because to land in such a way as to hurt someone is, in my opion, very unlikey)  From an other perspective. Even if no one gets hurt in the take down. It is very likely that the arrows will be damaged if not distroyed.  This is the only case were someones property is going to be damaged in a grapple. And since I could see a situation were a whole quiver gets snaped. I think that archers should be exempte.  Have I rambled enough?

I wish we had the means to punish the units and relmsthat don't take care of their kids. Insted we have to punish everybody. Do we have a way of sanctioning the groups?

I think my realm is down for it. See you there

I would try everything. I've got big guys that like shields (Love to bash) Red weapons (Duh, smash smash) Two weapons (A big guy can block a hit with his off hand that anyone else would need a shield) even a bow and arrow (A taller guy can see more, therefor hit more). No one stile fits with any given body type better than any other. It's the fighter behind the weapon that maters

You want calvary? Run. Take a small group (>12) and run like hell on the flank and come in behind them.  That's dag Calvary.

Don't forget about garb (Both having it and making it) and weapon building.  Also weapon checking and hearlding are important.  And have people teach others as they come in, don't just try to dump that job on a few people, even if someone is not good enough to teach on their own does not mean that they can't help. a good sparing partner is useful to have around when your teaching. And telling people that they can't use a weapon because their "too new/inexperienced is going to piss them off.  If your worried about someone hurting someone with a weapon that they can't handle just have the requirement be that a trainer says "He won't hurt someone with that".

When you back off try to move to the side as well as back. Or when you see them rush you you can try to go foreordained, move past them and attack from behind. You have to be moving forward and just off to the side of them. It can work.

That much bigger and beget you should not try to grapple. If you must you'll need judo on your feet and jujitsu on the ground. Start training now.

He's from Vor Volla guys, it's not exactly the most...learned of places to come from. Most of Missouri just kinda pretends they aren't there until an event rolls around.

yup I'm just an idiot. That's why in five years of training new people to fight with a red I've never had a serious ingury. And no I can't spell.

Look I'm not going to tell you your weapon is too hevey or that your useing a red too soon. If you realm says you wepon is good that's their call. What tout problem probibly is that when you swing you could be swinging with your arms alone. When you swing any weapon especially a red weapon you need to twist from the hips. The force of the swing should begin in your feet. This gives you more Control over the power ob your strikes. First of all when you hit someone with just your arms ether you hit will bounce off or they get knocked on their ass. If you twist while you strike you add the force of your body to the hit. You also extend the time of impact from an instant to something like .25 second. This gives a push to your strike that will push your opponent somewhat. If your oponenet is moved by your hit he will take that hit. More importantly the twist gives you the ability to pull your hits. The control you feel from the hips lets you feel the exact instant of of impact and twist your hips AWAY from the hit. You can do this a little or a lot. So you can choose how hard you hit a given person. Try this, take a red sword and swing at a tree. Step forward Swing fast from the hips and then don't hit it ( pull it). When you feel your power comeing from you hips and you can pull the hit authentic a few inches of impact you got it brow. Then you won't need that hevey POS. You don't need a slow hevey weapon to fight with a red. You need to control to hit as hard as you NEED too for a given opponent to take your hits.

Not much for diet. But I beat on a pole 30 min a day 2-3 times a week.

Single blue first. After that they should be taught what they want to learn. Telling people not to use a red or spear for half a year is BS. If someone has taught them to use a weapon and they are not going to hurt someone let them use what they want

If they won't take their hits. Hit them harder. If they still won't hit them right in them in the Dick. It's not illegal and it is a good teacher

Not all of us carry a back up. I think people die when going for it to often to carry one. What I do is grab the person who has gotten inside, take it to the ground. Take THEIR weapon and kill them with it.

VVS Springfield mo. Alive and growing.

Yo, is this a one day come up and go back, or will we go up work, camp wake up work and go home?  Also dates? Saturday? Sunday? Friday?

Hey.  My unit (Vor Volla, Springfield MO) Was planing to come up for the clean up day before the event (A few of us at least) Could someone give me some info about what we'll be doing and what we should bring?  Thank you.

   We're hosting a gathering in springfeild on May 1st (Sunday) one day meet and beat no charge with a potluck dinner after (No charge to eat but if nobody brings anything we don't eat)

When- May 1 Wepon cheak 12:00 noon fighting till 5 or 6.  Food at 5.

Where- FassNight park in springfeild go to 1212 S grant and you'll see us.

If it's your first event the most important thing to remember is rain gear.  Bring lots and lots and lots, spair clothes (Ten pairs of socks) several pairs of shoes, because remember, if you remember it will never rain, but if we forget (Even one of us people) it will rain like flood gates, mud gates, and Iron Fish combined.

Vor Volla is hosting a regional meet and beet on the 27th of November.  Curently coming are Dreadwood, Ravenswood, and Minions of Chaos.  Mabey Fifty fighters for a one day free fight.
When- November 27th (Thats a saturday) Fighting starts at 1:00 PM
Where-  1408 S National Ave, Springfield, MO 65804 US
Who-  any fighter or unit who wants to show.

For a barn door shield I would kick low (Right or left, what ever) and open him up, then kill him.  Or just kick him really hard and knock him over. or break his sheild with a red wepon (Glave would be best) or run around and he will get tired before you do.

   How about this?  If someone wants to wear sunglasses, let them.  We are grown ups right???