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Author Topic: Thoughts on fighting lefties  (Read 527 times)

Magnus

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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« on: July 18, 2008, 03:16:00 am »
Hey everyone, this is an article I found that I thought you all might enjoy reading.  Note that some of this is negated a little bit by our higher level of contact, but nonetheless I feel that the overall thesis of the piece, as well as many of the details, are very applicable to Dagorhir.

This is not my writing, so don't complain to me about any points with which you might have stylistic differences.  Also, I changed the names so you might be able to use them as a reference, better than someone you've never heard of.

 
quote:
Most Lefties Suck
[07/10/2008] [Glen]

This tragic statement is reinforced every time I travel to an event. I meet several Lefties who are, to put it very generously, mediocre fighters. Despite this deplorable fact, these fighters think they are highly skilled killing machines, and they have the kill tallies to back it up. I place the blame for this firmly on the shoulders of average right-handed fighters. Too many perfectly adequate Righties go completely to pieces just because the other guy has his sword on the wrong side.

To remedy the epidemic of craptastic Lefties slaughtering mediocre Righties (and to hopefully bring about an overall increase in skill in the left-handed population) I offer these tips, from a Lefty’s perspective, on how to kill a craptastic left-hander as a mediocre Righty. Do not expect these suggestions to be very effective against Ori or Shadow, but feel free to make fun of them if they are. Most of these suggestions imply a Lefty shield man, but given how many florentiners only use their off hand to block, a lot of this carries over to florentine as well.

First, for the love of all things good, learn to block with your right hand. Every Righty sword and boarder who blocks his right with his shield and every florentiner who crosses his body to block with his left hand is contributing to the problem by making themselves easy kills. The first and most basic Lefty shot is a straight forward slice at your right forearm. The wrap shot to your right hip is the second, and often last, shot a Lefty learns. They do not stop learning shots because they are stupid: they do not learn more shots because Righties are so stupid that these shots are all they need to kill them.

When a Lefty throws that shot at your hip or sword arm, block it with your right-hand sword. Then immediately chop his arm off with the same sword you blocked with. If you are a florentiner, you may also discover that the Lefty dips his shield when he throws this shot: hit him in the shoulder with your left hand.

If you are using a down spear and you’ve let a craptastic shield-bearing Lefty get this close: First, shame on you. Second, instead of blocking with your sword choke up on your down spear and reach across your body so it blocks your entire right side. This will render you virtually immune to half the Lefties in the game. They will continually hammer at your down spear, futilely trying to throw that wrap shot at your hip, and you can kill them at your leisure.

The third shot a Lefty will pick up is the high cross, which he will usually only use against shield men. This is a slow and ungainly shot that not only exposes the arm and the entire sword side, but it is easy to block. Despite these drawbacks it is stupidly effective against Righties. I mainly think this is due to Righties being stupid. Instead of blocking the shot and cleaving the Lefty in the ribs, the Righty chooses to die. To block this shot the Righty shield man simply needs to either lean backwards, raise his shield, step back, or any combination of the three. Then he should hit the Lefty in his now exposed ribs.

The fourth Lefty shot a Lefty will pick up is the slot. He will attempt to land a shot on your right shoulder, striking between your head and sword. This is very easily defeated simply by angling your sword towards your head a few degrees so that there is not a neat channel for his sword to slide down. Now slot shots will be pre-blocked by your sword.

The Righty has now deprived the craptastic Lefty of all the tools in his arsenal. Now let us look at a few tips that the Righty can use to kill the Lefty.

If you are a Righty using a down spear your easiest kill against a Lefty, especially a Lefty shield man, will be when he charges. Almost every craptastic Lefty is going to start out with his right leg forward and step forward with his left leg to close the distance. As soon as he does so his left hip will be open and vulnerable: stab him in it.

If you are a Righty florentiner, learn to use your left hand for something other than blocking. This is the hand you will kill him with, over and over. The Lefty, being used to facing Righties, and seeing a sword in your right hand, is going to fixate on that as the bigger threat. The craptastic Lefty will fall for right-hand bait again and again. I suggest you throw a low, rising stab, with your right hand as bait and wrap a free shoulder when the Lefty uses his right hand shield or sword to block it.

Hopefully this will serve as an introduction to killing Lefties, which will force the overall talent pool for Lefties to increase. Good luck and God speed.  


Please chime in with any of your thoughts on this subject.
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 03:46:00 am »
All I can say is that I want this article erased so no more righties find out because I am leftie  
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Blackhawk the Apollyon

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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 04:25:00 pm »
Cool, I didn't know I had more than 2 shots.
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 04:29:00 pm »
A lefty has a huge disadvantage when starting to sword fight. Usually we have nobody to teach us how to fight. We basically have to learn everything backwards. Even when we have someone to teach it is a big adjustment.

With that said the article isn't to far off base on the shots we use. I know I use the high cross the most. I basically go from high cross to straigh shot at body on the weapon side to slot shot.  I hardly ever use a wrap. I'm just not a big fan of them. I do have a few other shots but only use them when in trouble. Why use low percantage shots when you don't need to? Unless you are a lefty in eryndor. heh

To say most leftys suck is crazy though. How is using effective shots sucking? Sure they all aren't top level but thats a pretty crazy statement. Lefties don't fight like righties so they suck? If we fought like righties we would suck.

Knowing how to beat a lefty is really easy to type but being able to do it is another thing.

 If you really really really need to beat a lefty I can tell you how. Keep your shield up and don't swing. Wait for us to try an open you up then hit the arm/shoulder. Pretty simple.  Alot of times I get so used to just killing 8 or 9 people in a row pretty effortlessly. So when I run into someone who isn't a top guy I get lazy and don't always commit to swings or even try half the time. Stay paitient and take advantage. This works with righties too!!!! I hate arm hunting but thats the best way.

Best thing the article says is for righties to learn how to block with your weapon. Probably the most underrated aspect along with footwork. Key with weapon blocking is just practice. It's going to take atleast a month of practicing 3 days a week to grasp it even a little. It is worth it though. It was the main thing I was missing for a long time.

The main thing the guy is leaving out is timing. This is a huge part in fighting as a lefty and against one. Our arm/side is constantly under attack. We develop weapon blocking to counter act that which opens up tons of angles for attacks. We have to know when to throw those shots because they are predictable.

Thats why I'm crazy good on the field where I can use stuff that distracts fighters to easily kill them. Where as one on one it is easy to block my shots and makes it a tougher fight.

Fight me like you do one on one durring a battle my right handed friend Ed standing next to me will kill you. Thats another article though.

 Take what you can from the article and use it against me. Only thing is I have 6 years of practice. Have fun catching up.  

As far as 2 weapon fighters... Get shields.

[ July 17, 2008: Message edited by: -Ori- ]
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BolvoiTiwaz

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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 05:36:00 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by Akron of Highvale:
All I can say is that I want this article erased so no more righties find out because I am leftie  


agreed.
and i fight fine righty... if we meatgrind or phalanx
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 06:33:00 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by -Ori-:
A lefty has a huge disadvantage when starting to sword fight.


Not for those of us who are ambidextrous like me  
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 11:25:00 am »
I think the original author's main issue was that lefty fighters often get a big "bump" just from being lefty and intimidating righties.  Plus, their impressive kill ratios often hide the fact that they are sometimes really just decent (or sometimes worse) fighters, not killing machines in terms of pure ability.  Because lefties get a potentially big "boost" already, they can often rely on a few bread-and-butter shots and not *have* to strive to get good, really good, then excellent.  That takes work and why push to do so when just being a decent-to-good lefty is enough to dominate on the field?  

Like Ori, I'm a big fan of footwork (sadly neglected in Dag) and blocking with your weapon--especially as a means to counter-attack.  Arm hunting is boring, but it is effective.  But here's the thing, try blocking shots with a flail haft or an ultralight battlewand?  As they say, the right tools for the job and blocking well and effectively takes a longish weapon that is stiff and has some mass.  Say, a well-counterbalanced sword.  Lefties do, in general, *have* to learn to block with their weapons much faster and "naturally" as they get shots all the time on that side so that works to their advantage.

Another observation, since flails cannot effectively block shots, what naturally follows is a requirement for larger shields.  Most really accomplished sword and shield users don't use the barndoor as it limits their shot selection, is really unnecessary, and for many--pride.

As I've been saying for years, I prefer fighting lefties, always have. Thanks for posting the article Magnus.

[ July 19, 2008: Message edited by: Güntar von Keitz ]
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GvK
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 11:57:00 am »
Just to provide some perspective, according to wikipedia (yea, that wonderful body of accurate knowledge):
 
quote:
According to Wikipedia:
Left-handed gladiators were popular and a rare novelty, their fights were always advertised as a special event. As with modern-day "lefty" fencers, tennis players and other sportsman, these left-handers had a large advantage as they were trained to fight right-handers who were themselves not trained to defend against a left-hander. Mentions of left handedness on gravestones have been found.
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Blackhawk the Apollyon

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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 01:11:00 pm »
Last Saturday night I hosted 2 fighters at my house for pit fights. Foghnan and Jari. I have fought with both for a very long time. Until I watched Foghnan fight it occurred to me that he was a lefty. He has been fighting with 2 blues and a buckler. I handed him a larger shield and a better sword and proceeded to teach him to embrace his left handed-ness. Against Jari (who is adept at fighting lefties), Foghnan was taught to use his skill as a swordsman to his advantage. Ori does have a point that lefties have difficulty early on if not trained. (scissors are a real chore as well)  Foghnan was no exception. We filmed the whole thing to show the openings later. Jari put on a clinic on how to fight lefties and Foghnan learned quickly.

Long story short, next practice Foghnan chumped the mighty Graymael on their first 2 encounters.

We got great footage of some amazing stuff. When I figure out how, I will post the highlights.
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 04:16:00 pm »
I hate scissors.  
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Graymael

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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2008, 05:06:00 pm »
Thoughts on fighting lefties?

Shoot 'em in the head!

Don't wait for them to swing...SHOOT 'EM IN THE HEAD!

- Ambidexterous Graymael
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2008, 05:21:00 pm »
I love fighting lefties!

G-Run
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2008, 06:00:00 pm »
quote
Quote
I hate scissors.  
I'll have to remember that if I ever play rock-paper-scissors with you.
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2008, 06:41:00 pm »
GVK made me get tea all over the keyboard!!
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 12:25:00 am »
At first glance, this article is pretty offensive towards lefties. Then... I sort of realized how true it kind of was.

I think the trick to becoming a good left handed fighter is fighting right-handed  fighters that are great at fighting lefties, a lot. I know this worked well for my buddy Marathos. He's the scariest lefty I know. He learned to fight well when a few of our key members learned to fight lefties just as naturally as they did righties.

But hell, I'm no lefty. So I probably have no clue what I'm talking about.
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2008, 01:15:00 am »
As a lefty I found nothing in the article the irritated me.  I am well aware my own success on the battlefield is 1/3 lefty, 1/3 height, and 1/3 hype. Teaching a righty to fight a lefty is the same as teaching a lefty to fight. The difficulty is teaching lefties to fight each other. The moves we use on each other are the advanced moves taught to righties. We learn early on to parry and carry a shield, but when we face off against each other our normal moves don't work. We end up reaching for the back leg or crossing for the back shoulder. Utopia for me would be to have 2 good fighters (one of each hand) to spar with.

[ July 18, 2008: Message edited by: Blackhawk. ]
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2008, 02:44:00 am »
thoughts on fighting lefties?

if your righty teach yourself to be lefty, itll help when you lose your right arm

- Partially Ambidextrous Joseph Bladestalker
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2008, 11:20:00 am »
im a natural lefty, taut myself to fight righty.

best thing i ever did.
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2008, 12:02:00 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by Blackhawk.:
I am well aware my own success on the battlefield is 1/3 lefty, 1/3 Magic Switch, 1/3 height, 1/3 friendly-fire kills; 1/3 imaginary, and 1/3 hype.  And 1/3 PUB.  ]


Fixed your post.
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Blackhawk the Apollyon

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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2008, 12:10:00 pm »
Is Wisdom doing your math again?
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2008, 12:53:00 am »
Well, sorry Akron but I think you gave me plenty of exp fighting lefties. Specialy flails.
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2008, 03:24:00 am »
quote:Originally posted by Blackhawk.:
I am well aware my own success on the battlefield is 1/6 lefty, 1/6 Magic Switch, 1/6 height, 1/6 friendly-fire kills; 1/6 imaginary, and 1/6 hype. And 1/6 PUB. ]

their fixed your post gray :P
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2008, 03:44:00 am »
agreed with ori on the disadvantagd part as I lefty I always love finding other lefty shield men to show me more moves because only so many righty moves will transfer.  the real question here is when I lefty runs into another lefty none of my moves work anymore lol
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2008, 04:08:00 am »
I feel your pain bro. I need a good lefty to spar with. I get tired of chumping righties with my incredible arsenal of 2 moves.
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 12:23:00 pm »
Thanks, Joseph.  Much mo better.

(I read "An Excess of Enchantments" by Craig Shaw Gardner a long time ago where "the Seven Other Dwarfs" were recurring characters.  It took me halfway through the book before I caught on that there were actually EIGHT of them.)  
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2008, 05:54:00 am »
To other lefties what would you say the pros and cons are of a using a strap vs a punch
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Ruken
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2008, 10:29:00 am »
Blackhawk,

Come to the practice at Hammond Park on Thursdays from 6-dusk.  I'd be happy to spar with you until you're out of breath.  (Note that tomorrow I'm packing for Pennsic and I'll be at Pennsic next week, but after that...)

G-Run
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2008, 12:04:00 pm »
Thanks G-run. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2008, 09:34:00 pm »
Random pondering...

What's the easier route to earning the most kills on the field:

1) Being a righty and spending a lot of time training and developing an extensive skillset of moves.

OR

2) Being a righty, training yourself to fight as a lefty, and mastering two or three moves.
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2008, 10:33:00 pm »
I am a lefty from birth but I do many things right handed too, such as writing left and right (still trying to neaten it up =P)  When I fight, I tend to fight right handed when I use my big red, but when I got into single blues I decided I liked left.  When I tried blues on my right, I found I had a better position in the sense that it was more comfortable and I could move a little easier, but my swordsmanship was not as quick.  It was exactly opposite for the left handed fighting, I was less comfortable in my position but more nimble when it came to sparring.  Currently i am trying to enhance my skills so I am good at both.
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2008, 10:35:00 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by Blackhawk.:
I feel your pain bro. I need a good lefty to spar with. I get tired of chumping righties with my incredible arsenal of 2 moves.


Don't worry Blackhawk I might have come up with a move to beat your awkward duel stance...

Though I'm not counting on it if the Orcs at Ides kidnap me again...
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2008, 01:43:00 am »
Moose. The move is easy.
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2008, 03:42:00 am »
quote:
Originally posted by Graymael:
Thanks, Joseph.  Much mo better.

(I read "An Excess of Enchantments" by Craig Shaw Gardner a long time ago where "the Seven Other Dwarfs" were recurring characters.  It took me halfway through the book before I caught on that there were actually EIGHT of them.)  



lol nice graymael

Well, like i said earlier(i think) im righty by birth, but i am ambidextrous, i find im more comfortable fighting sword and board sword in my right hand, but when it comes to single blue i prefer fighting lefty
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2008, 05:50:00 pm »
BlackHawk is all that plus 9\10 Pub.

I delight in the fact of being a leftie!
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Thoughts on fighting lefties
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2008, 11:35:00 am »
quote:
Originally posted by Devaryn:
Random pondering...

What's the easier route to earning the most kills on the field:

1) Being a righty and spending a lot of time training and developing an extensive skillset of moves.

OR

2) Being a righty, training yourself to fight as a lefty, and mastering two or three moves.


I would encourage all to learn to fight with both hands. You never know when I'll be around to remove your good arm just to laugh at your lack of skill with the other. Also you never know when you get into a fight with the earth and loose the use of your good arm for a couple of months.
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