Fighting > General Fighting Discussion
How can we make Dag more realistic.
Judge Dredd:
Aside from Garb, how can we use todays technology to make the fighting more realistic. With uberlight foams, plasdip, fiberglass cores, counter weighting, latex, ect.. It seems to me that if we put our collective minds together, we could come up with ways to make combat both ubersafe, and uber realistic.
Here is what I think are our goals. Safety, Playability, Realism.
Armor: seems to be nerffed do to playability (metal would rule the field) but is there a way to reduce leather to make metal a reasonable option? Plus, we want to keep cost and confusion down so that unarmored fighters can win. Should metal be better than leather? and if so, should it carry a significant encumbrance penalty? It seems Leather is here to stay, so should we be looking to reward those who choose to be encumbered by metal? or should we seek to reduce the effectiveness of leather to gain the same result?
Shields: should there be a weight encumbrance (or penalty), be assessed so that fighters who choose not to carry or wear one are faster?
Weapons: Should we re-adopt a weight to length ratio so that the longer they get, the more they weigh, forcing fighters to choose one over the other? Also killing massive LARPy weapons (like the deromanizer, sorry Leo)?
I have fought Dag in two eras (I know, who cares?) and in my humble opinion. There are some things about new Dag that are way better than old Dag. But there are also things about old Dag that made the combat more intense and more realistic. I think it is the responsibility of those of us who were in Dag a gazzillion years ago to admit that Dag is more awesome now than ever, but in order to keep it that way, we need to be good stewards of the sport by trying to keep the dream of safe, realistic combat at the forefront.
More and more, I see fighters playing a destructive game of red rover to get their "battle"on. Or their realism fix. This results in far worse injuries than a 5lb padded hammer causes. Is there, the possibility that head shots could become legal? IDK! but wouldn't it be cool if with todays, or tomorrows technology, we could truly take the field with impunity to injury and really see if our skills translate into realistic fighting? Wouldn't you like to know if you truly beat your opponent? Wouldn't you like to know if "this were real" I wouldda kicked that dudes ass?
I can make a Dag sword that weighs 9oz. I can also make a Dag sword that weighs 36oz. Both are safe, both are fast, I can kick your ass with either. So why do we allow the unrealistic weight one? Aside from "thats what I am used to" why?
I can make a Dag shield that weighs the same as it's dark age counterpart, or I can make one that weighs a fraction of that weight. Why?
I can make armor out of leather, why? I can make armor out of metal. Why? I can fight without armor. why?
Dag was started as a way to reenact the fantasy of being in Tolkiens middle earth or the dark ages in a way that allowed the participants the feeling of actual combat in that time period, without actually killing each other. Why don't we steer Dag back in that direction? Like it or not, Dag was designed by geeks. The type of geeks that played D&D and would like to see encumbrance for protection and weight to speed multipliers.
Kill me now.... I deserve it!!
Arrakis:
You know, Blackhawk, I'm astounded that there aren't more instances of "Combat with Modifications" at big events, like Ragnarok.
It would be trivially simple for a group of fighters who wanted to do so to hold a battle or five with modified rules to the tune of: Helmets required, Headshots legal; Weapons must weigh 1 oz/inch; Shields no larger than nose-to-knee. And I think that would rule.
It'd probably count as good playtesting, too, especially on account of the high level of fighters that would likely be involved...
Dedric Aristata:
Armor: There is obviously a historical precedent for leather armor. In addition, the obvious tactics against a full plate fighter are nerfed, since I can't bash his head in with a mace, or set him on fire. I don't want to see much, if any nerfing of leather armor, and I don't want to see plate get additional powers. That gets us more and more into who can afford what out of game. However, I rather like the concept of single-green piercing leather, since it wouldn't change much of how we play the game, and would encourage improved weaponsmithing techniques.
Shields: I don't know how a "penalty" would work, or how it would be enforced, so NO. Anyone believing that shields give too much of an advantage to the wielder need only to look at Magnus single blue fighting during the night battles. He WAS less effective than with his shield, but there's no reason why a fighter MUST have a shield. Additionally, in real life shieldmen are simply more effective. We might consider reducing the maximum shield size slightly, but even there, we've played for so long with the game as it is, I don't think we should be illegalizing existing weapons unless we have a VERY good reason for it.
Weapons: I'm not sure about a weight-to-length ratio. That seems to be more trouble for weapons-checkers, and, like other similar rules, would be enforced subjectively, since EVERY weapon isn't going to be checked - only the ones the checkers think *might* fail. I do like the idea of more realistic weapons, though.
I guess I will have to kill you... again... for relating Dag to a D&D-style system. Encumbrance and hitpoints are features of some awesome LARPs, you should totally go play them! ;D
Judge Dredd:
I bring this upon myself as a weapons checker. But no! i don't mind checking this stuff. Lets get it friggen right!!
Arrakis- you sound like my kind of fighter. Doood, I would be soooooooo into head legal combat. As far as I can tell, living with Jari, it already is!!
Dedrick- Doooood i got set on fire at my 10th battle. It was awesome!! Great story BTW! If you think I should be playing D&D instead of Dag then we have not yet met brudda. If I remember correctly, you live or die by my will. Weather it be at a club, bar, pub, ect.... you are alive cause I will it to be! Say what you will but you know it to be true!!! Deny this at your own risk!!!
Dudley S. Grimes:
Dagorhir at it's basest elemet, is a re-creation of fantasy/dark ages battle.
If I were fighting in the dark ages, and found materials to make a shield and sword that combined weighs as much as my opponents sword, but still offers the same amount of protection, I would.
Anyone with any thoughts of living to grow old would.
The advancement of Dag weapons is a decent comparison of their actual evolution through time. As time progressed theirs got better, ours is doing the same thing.
AS long as the rules don't get any less restrictive, Dagorhir is pretty believeable.
Many complaints are resolved if you account for fantasy, which provides a reason for leather doing the same as metal armor, shields wieghing little and a 12oz sword. Their fing enchanted! Duh, c'mon guys.
Head legal combat would be boss, and I completely beleive our rules could allow for it, barring red, including reds swung one-handed, and green contact.
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