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[K"urn]

I figured it may be good to start a general question thread.



I'm asking this for one of my unit mates. "Why does the official Rag website say 'No Pets' when the campsites website says dogs are ok as long as they are leashed?"

K-

[Judge Dredd]

Cause pets are not allowed at Rag

[Askarus Space Beard]

no poo = good times!

[K"urn]

So then it's a RAG rule? I'm curious as to why this changed?

K-

[Grom316]

So then it's a RAG rule? I'm curious as to why this changed?

K-

  Long Answer: Same reason the coopers doesn't allow them at Pennsic either, allegies, bites, and litigatation Oh My!  Seriously though there are different contracts signed between organizations and individual campers. Judging by every other event I've ever been to there, no pets have been allowed. Prolley something to do with packing that many people in at once.

  Short Answer: As is common in life when your not allowed to do something... Someone else before you was an idiot.

[Dedric Aristata]

Because whoever did the negotiating on our behalf should have negotiated a bit harder. We sign wavers so we can't sue for injuries, no reason the same exact thing can't be done with pets. If I had pets, I would be mega-pissed, and probably decide to piss on every fire hydrant there just so everyone else could have the pet feeling. Fortunately, I do not have pets.

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

And that fixes what Dedric?

[Grom316]

Because whoever did the negotiating on our behalf should have negotiated a bit harder. We sign wavers so we can't sue for injuries, no reason the same exact thing can't be done with pets. If I had pets, I would be mega-pissed, and probably decide to piss on every fire hydrant there just so everyone else could have the pet feeling. Fortunately, I do not have pets.

You would actually sign a waiver so if Larry brings Spike the Rottwieller, is criminally neglegent, and allows the dog he bought from Michael Vick to run loose cause, "He ain't bit noone." comes up and removes a largish section of your kid you brought to rags left leg? 

See the problem really boils down to insurance, having been to more FFA, equestrian events ect. than I care to recall I garentee you that breaking your leg on the battle field and fido snapping it off are two COMPLETELY diferent clauses.

[Askarus Space Beard]

Nobody cares about your pets. I'm sure getting a site that your dog can enjoy was the furthest thing from the business councils minds. 

[Alric]

Because whoever did the negotiating on our behalf should have negotiated a bit harder. We sign wavers so we can't sue for injuries, no reason the same exact thing can't be done with pets. If I had pets, I would be mega-pissed, and probably decide to piss on every fire hydrant there just so everyone else could have the pet feeling. Fortunately, I do not have pets.

Sure, because we totally have more leverage than the guys who negotiate the Pennsic contracts. Coopers Lake is used to having large groups of medievalists use their campground, and they don't let the other guys bring pets either.

[Dedric Aristata]

So then who IS allowed to bring pets, Alric? Or was the OP wrong in saying that they allow pets there?

Jari, it fixes nothing. It didn't fix anything when I opened my beer with my boxers a few minutes ago either. But I still did it. Some of my actions are done for the greater good, some for my own enjoyment, and still others never make it past the stage of imagination.

Askarus, it's not about the dog enjoying the trip. It's about that if I had a pet, I'd have to stay home and take care of it. One of the many reasons I don't have pets.

And yes, Grom, I'd sign that waiver. Well, I'd sign the waiver that I would not hold DBGA, Inc., or Cooper's Lake responsible. And I wouldn't do anything legally, either. I'd rip the dog's head off and shove it up its owner's ass. But our society is far too litigious, and suing the campground would be just plain wrong. In fact, I'm getting pissed just thinking about how stupid people are that they would actually do that, and should have their heads shoved under the sandbars in the creek at Spring Valley, so I'm going to have more beer and sign off now, I mean if you get bit by a dog in Cambridge, you can't sue Cambridge, can you?

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

Because whoever did the negotiating on our behalf should have negotiated a bit harder.

Wow, that's a logical leap.  You are assuming that being allowed to bring pets was negotiable.

K"urn asked a question about something on the Cooper's Lake website that differs from the Dagorhir contract with Cooper's Lake for Ragnarok.  Grom brought up a good point that this site does not allow pets at ANY large event they host. And if you step back and think about it, it's one thing for a campground that's hosting a few hundred campers allows pets, but the same space is hosting several thousand (estimated) may be a different situation.  At least that's one possibility for why there's a difference in policies. 

Regardless, the policy for this year is no pets.  If you want it revisited, take the matter to your chapter's Rag Wr Council rep. and they can raise it there.

[Gorbag]

I have a questiong about this:

minors are only allowed if their parent or permanent legal guardian is on site.

Am I correct in understanding that no under 18s will be allowed on site even if their parent's have signed over legal guardianship temporarily to a chaperone? And, is this a park rule or an event rule?

[Grom316]

So then who IS allowed to bring pets, Alric? Or was the OP wrong in saying that they allow pets there?

And yes, Grom, I'd sign that waiver. Well, I'd sign the waiver that I would not hold DBGA, Inc., or Cooper's Lake responsible. And I wouldn't do anything legally, either. I'd rip the dog's head off and shove it up its owner's ass. But our society is far too litigious, and suing the campground would be just plain wrong. In fact, I'm getting pissed just thinking about how stupid people are that they would actually do that, and should have their heads shoved under the sandbars in the creek at Spring Valley, so I'm going to have more beer and sign off now, I mean if you get bit by a dog in Cambridge, you can't sue Cambridge, can you?

  Well not everyone would sign that waiver and there's still the insurance issue. Hence no pets.

  And yes you can sue Cambridge, IF you can prove thier animal control was negligent. I can site precedence if you like.

  Refering back to the Rag website, we find: The only exception to this are certified trained helper animals. All helper animals must be registered with Troll. Proper paper work for a certified helper animal must also be presented at Troll.

I have a questiong about this:

minors are only allowed if their parent or permanent legal guardian is on site.

Am I correct in understanding that no under 18s will be allowed on site even if their parent's have signed over legal guardianship temporarily to a chaperone? And, is this a park rule or an event rule?

  You are correct persons under 18 will not be permitted to attend, without a parent or PERMENANT legal guardian attending.  As to who's rule it is I think the point we've all reached is. Someone made the rule and no matter how much anyone likes it thats the way it is this year.  Perhaps if we speak to our war council rep and/or volunteer to help run the event next year, we can change it next year.

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

So then who IS allowed to bring pets, Alric? Or was the OP wrong in saying that they allow pets there?

Nobody is, silly.  Not to Ragnarok.  The Cooper's Lake website rules are for folks coming there as regular campers at other times (and paying much higher rates).

Askarus, it's not about the dog enjoying the trip. It's about that if I had a pet, I'd have to stay home and take care of it.

Nope, sorry, that straw man doesn't cover it.  Pet owners have a lot more options than just staying home. 

[Dominick Stoneskull]

Gorbag--That's correct, and if I'm not mistaken, it's a Coopers Lake rule.

It's covered on the Rag FAQ at http://www.einherjarsvalhalla.com/ragnarok/faq.html.

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

I have a question about this:

minors are only allowed if their parent or permanent legal guardian is on site.

Am I correct in understanding that no under 18s will be allowed on site even if their parent's have signed over legal guardianship temporarily to a chaperone? And, is this a park rule or an event rule?

It's a rule that the site owners require for big events, so I suppose that you can call it a park rule.  The responses we've seen previously have said that it was non-negotiable. No temporary chaperones, no elder brothers and so on (unless they are permanent legal guardians). 

[Dominick Stoneskull]

Hey, I've actually got a question, too. My apologies for the likely case that it's covered elsewhere.

Are there any Rag campsites available that have electric hookups? We have a fighter in our realm who's very interested in attending Rag, but he has severe sleep apnea, and would need access to a power outlet to run his machine overnight. Before he asks for time off work, I'd like to find out the feasibility of being able to accommodate him.

I'm sorry if this is covered elsewhere; I've tried to keep myself informed on all the Rag stuff, but other than the Cooper's Lake website confirming that some sites have hookups, I can't remember or seem to find something to confirm if we have access.

[Grom316]

Hey, I've actually got a question, too. My apologies for the likely case that it's covered elsewhere.

Are there any Rag campsites available that have electric hookups? We have a fighter in our realm who's very interested in attending Rag, but he has severe sleep apnea, and would need access to a power outlet to run his machine overnight. Before he asks for time off work, I'd like to find out the feasibility of being able to accommodate him.

I'm sorry if this is covered elsewhere; I've tried to keep myself informed on all the Rag stuff, but other than the Cooper's Lake website confirming that some sites have hookups, I can't remember or seem to find something to confirm if we have access.

  Actually I'd say at a guess 60% of the sites have electric hookups. Even if yours doesn't however there is a medical camping area set up that most certainly does.

[Dominick Stoneskull]

Excellent, I'll let him know. Thank you!

[athelas]

Will everyone PLEASE stop whining about the "no pets" rule? I have 3 pets and I will be spending more to board the dog and pay the kitty sitter than I am spending for my spouse and me to attend the event - and I'm not whining. I think it is a perfectly acceptable rule considering the number of people we are expecting.

[Tannhäuser.]

Thanks for staying on top of things Grom!

No Pets and no minors without parents are two hard and fast rules of Cooper's Lake.  If they make or break your Rag experience, I recommend researching other sites.  Both of these issues were explicitly discussed by ourselves with the people running Cooper's Lake, and there is no 'wiggle room' from the campground owners on these issues.  We considered it a small price to pay for the amazing upgrade in facilities and amenities this year (for a very low $$ increase). 

Nearly every power hookup site Cooper's has is in our camping area, and if we can share with each other well, there is no reason that power won't be available to 50%+ of Ragnarok attendees.  The medical camping area is very nice, and is where I will be staying as well (severe sleep apnea) so you will be in good company 

[athelas]

People with needs that require power...
If you have a specific group/realm/unit that you insist upon camping with. Make sure to bring one of those really long orange outdoor extension cords and you WILL have power. There is enough to share even if you need to use a splitter.

[Judge Dredd]

Do not worry pet owners. After many letters to the owners of the campsite and to the people in charge of Dag, I was able to get a special dispensation and will be bringing my dwarf to rag.

Edit.. I think in actuality the dwarf has many owners of which I am decidedly NOT ONE.

[Kensman Ilariia]

Did you get him one of those retractable leashes?  Or just a shock collar?

[Dibs the Imp]

*squee!!* C'n I take care of him for you, BH?? Pleeeeeeeeeease??

[Dibs the Imp]

Oh yeah, and you owe Brenna a beer. Just sayin'.

[K"urn]

Will everyone PLEASE stop whining about the "no pets" rule? I have 3 pets and I will be spending more to board the dog and pay the kitty sitter than I am spending for my spouse and me to attend the event - and I'm not whining. I think it is a perfectly acceptable rule considering the number of people we are expecting.

I'm not whining about anything. I am merely speaking on behalf of a unit mate who is confused about the obvious contradiction. I myself have only one pet, who will be boarded for the duration, as he always has been.

K-

[Dominick Stoneskull]

Do not worry pet owners. After many letters to the owners of the campsite and to the people in charge of Dag, I was able to get a special dispensation and will be bringing my dwarf to rag.

 Does this mean we got a service animal Rag tag for Jari, after all?

Edit.. I think in actuality the dwarf has many owners of which I am decidedly NOT ONE.

Beat me to it.

[Judge Dredd]

*squee!!* C'n I take care of him for you, BH?? Pleeeeeeeeeease??

Can you? I, and many concerned Dagorhirum are counting on it.

[Askarus Space Beard]

he can stay with Sparta if need be, we'll take goooood care of him.

<cue porn music>

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

No Pets and no minors without parents are two hard and fast rules of Cooper's Lake.  If they make or break your Rag experience, I recommend researching other sites.  Both of these issues were explicitly discussed by ourselves with the people running Cooper's Lake, and there is no 'wiggle room' from the campground owners on these issues.  We considered it a small price to pay for the amazing upgrade in facilities and amenities this year (for a very low $$ increase). 

Thanks for addressing that question specifically Tannheuser, including that y'all had discussed those matters and the owner's response.  I don't think people were accusing anyone of laziness or missing important details, but it is good that you did try to accomodate the needs of us as a group. 

[athelas]

BH, you can bring the dwarf but I am not volunteering to watch him. He is too mobile to keep tabs on and I only see him when he needs beverages. So... anything he does is YOUR fault (except for the women he does... those are their fault).

[Grey Wolfcaller, Grand High Homo of Dagorhir]

As long as he's got a leash, I'll take care of the dwarf. Then again . . . I'm sure I can scrounge up a leash on my own.

[Grom316]

Wait do all dwarves need service animal tags cause I am NOT being left in charge of Dargnok

[athelas]

Not all dwarves need tags, just Jari. And there are many, many wimmens willing to look out for him.

[Stellaria]

And that imp. I'm sure she'll do a good job

[athelas]

I thought he was now your responsibility, Stell. You guys are in business together so YOU need to watch out for him (hee hee, good luck with that)

[Izad]

I have a questiong about this:

minors are only allowed if their parent or permanent legal guardian is on site.

Am I correct in understanding that no under 18s will be allowed on site even if their parent's have signed over legal guardianship temporarily to a chaperone? And, is this a park rule or an event rule?

omg, these questions are every where but its like no one understands it. I know it sucks cause my realm has a few minors too but here it is.

A minor 17 years old or younger can not attend unless their parent(s) or legal guardian is standing right there beside them at troll and is camping at the event for the entire week. This does not mean that your older brother or sister or cousin can be your guardian. It is a parent that gave birth to you, adopted you or a legal guardian that is appointed by the state or something. Its not that hard to understand.

Gorbag, i didnt mean this as a personal assault against you, i was just using yours as an example that every one keeps asking. I wasnt attacking you personally at all. So please take no offense.

[Grom316]

i got nothing

[Stellaria]

I thought he was now your responsibility, Stell. You guys are in business together so YOU need to watch out for him (hee hee, good luck with that)

Pfff! Responsibility? Heckno! I'll make sure he's got food and remembers his shots and crap, but I'm not his mother   I'll let Little Miss Excited up there take care of that.

[Kensman Ilariia]

Invest in the shock collar, Stell....for both of them.

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

If I don't get a service animal tag this Rag I will be a very VERY sad Dwarf. *makes a pouty face*

[Grom316]

Sorry Jari  *Holds up emancipation proclimation* and of course Rag rules include state and federal laws.

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

But they *points above* promised!

[Dibs the Imp]

S'okay....you can be MY service animal! *waggles eyebrows and leers*

[Korac]

I understand there is going to be an electric hook up at most of the site.  What is the deal with RV camping?  If I bring mine will I have to camp with the RV turds?  Will I be able to just hook up to electric where all the ragnarok dorks are?

thanks.

[Tannhäuser.]

I understand there is going to be an electric hook up at most of the site.  What is the deal with RV camping?  If I bring mine will I have to camp with the RV turds?  Will I be able to just hook up to electric where all the ragnarok dorks are?

thanks.

Contact me off boards for those rules - tannhauser@dagorhir.com

[Magnus]

Might we restrict threads like this to on-topic discussion only? Like Korac's post and the original post?

[gooomBaa]

So i read in the official coopers lake rules that quiet time is at 11pm? is that going to apply to us or is that a more general campers rule? Cause the midnight quiet time last rag was torture, eleven almost seems like a waste of time . . .