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[Mordor]

Hi there!!!

And yes... crossbows... beacuse I planned a pump-action one too

So my crossbow: Made from oak-, walnut wood, steel, and bone inlay guled with polyesther gut.



It's still unfinished but the end is near...

[Lonidaus]

Beautiful workmanship. Are you gonna upload a vid of it firing when you're done? I, unfortunately, haven't seen too many dag crossbows and would love to see more.

[Erich MacKermak]

Just out of curiosity, what are you using for the prod (bow)?  Did you make it yourself or is there a source for Dag legal prods out there?


-EMK

[Mordor]

My friend made for me from leaf spring material... It was a hard work; as he said...
Theocratically will be 25 lbs strength(can be adjust by string length).
All other steel parts self made welded etc.

[Squire Lizard]

Huh, just noticed this...
So is your name Mordor because I know for a fact that no one here in the realm of Mordor has anything remotely close to that.
Not trying to be a dick just asking because since I am the Admin of the realm this caught my eye and if someone is planning on bringing them out to a practice expect them to be tested fairly but thouroughly.

[Skeith, the Forsaken]

Huh, just noticed this...
So is your name Mordor because I know for a fact that no one here in the realm of Mordor has anything remotely close to that.
Not trying to be a dick just asking because since I am the Admin of the realm this caught my eye and if someone is planning on bringing them out to a practice expect them to be tested fairly but thouroughly.

I actually though user: Mordor was possibly your realm admin account. heh

Guess that answers my question and saddens me that the Army of Mordor doesn't have a secret crossbow project.

On that note, lets see this thing get more dakka.

[Quorren]

A pump action crossbow would be fun. Make it a double barrel/double grooved. Ha.

But it looks very nice. One thing that concerns me is that the tips on the edge of the metal lath look fairly sharp. Are they?

[The Drode]

Guess that answers my question and saddens me that the Army of Mordor doesn't have a secret crossbow project.

On that note, lets see this thing get more dakka.

Sir, AoM-Electric Mayhem division dose have a secret crossbow project going. Burnwood  has made 4 so far, just testing on what is needed for it. I would mention more but again, its secret.

[Skeith, the Forsaken]

Excellent, Drode *steeples fingers*

Plan on me contacting E.M. Division sometime in the future about this. Would be awesome to see some of our boyz preform a warg rider drive by.

[The Drode]

Excellent, Drode *steeples fingers*

Plan on me contacting E.M. Division sometime in the future about this. Would be awesome to see some of our boyz preform a warg rider drive by.

Faze 2 is complete sir...waiting on faze 3, acquiring a bow tester then ONTO FAZE 4, producing a good one. Faze 5, MASS PRODUCTION AND PRICING MWAHAHAHAHA

His Eye Upon Us,
While We Forge For His Glory

[Mordor]

So is your name Mordor because I know for a fact that no one here in the realm of Mordor has anything remotely close to that.

It is my name at local LARP forum...

A pump action crossbow would be fun.

It will be a repeating crossbow and will be pulled up "pump action".

One thing that concerns me is that the tips on the edge of the metal lath look fairly sharp. Are they?

Pompoms can be used to protect.

But it's not az axe, so it's not more dangerous than an armor edge. I saw polyfoam blocks on crossbows they looked ugly.

[Quorren]

So is your name Mordor because I know for a fact that no one here in the realm of Mordor has anything remotely close to that.

It is my name at local LARP forum...

A pump action crossbow would be fun.

It will be a repeating crossbow and will be pulled up "pump action".

One thing that concerns me is that the tips on the edge of the metal lath look fairly sharp. Are they?

Pompoms can be used to protect.

But it's not az axe, so it's not more dangerous than an armor edge. I saw polyfoam blocks on crossbows they looked ugly.

.

Agreed that it is not more dangerous than an armour edge, however even armour edges must be blunted.

Oh, and Can of Worms=Opened. A lever action or pump action crossbow in itself is going to be a little tougher to make than the average crossbow but it is possible. How do you intend on designing a repeating crosbow, though?

[Mordor]

I got idea from there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR0FXZe2_64
But I plan 10 rounds exchangeable magazine(a 2nd trigger will able to release it). Naturally larpsafe arrows. I plan to use tropical bloodwood for it. Power much lower than 25lbs(aim is short rage, quick firing). I finished the plan, but don't want to show till finish...

[Quorren]

I got idea from there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR0FXZe2_64
But I plan 10 rounds exchangeable magazine(a 2nd trigger will able to release it). Naturally larpsafe arrows. I plan to use tropical bloodwood for it. Power much lower than 25lbs(aim is short rage, quick firing). I finished the plan, but don't want to show till finish...

Well, good luck with it. Really. But make sure you account for the fact that your magazine is going to be nearly 3 feet tall.

[Mordor]

Well, good luck with it. Really. But make sure you account for the fact that your magazine is going to be nearly 3 feet tall.

No, magazine looks like a chinese fan. With about 1 feet arrows it's just 1 feet tall.

[PhotoJoe]

Well, good luck with it. Really. But make sure you account for the fact that your magazine is going to be nearly 3 feet tall.

No, magazine looks like a chinese fan. With about 1 feet arrows it's just 1 feet tall.

Not being an archer I'm not up to the specifics of arrow/bolt rules but I'll it's suppose it's 3 inches across for the average arrow and you need a 1/4 in of clearance between the heads. That's over 32 inches at the wide end of the fan-like magazine. I'll go for "nearly 3 feet tall" as an accurate enough description.

[Kyrnn Wolfsbane]

Not unless he staggered the bolts like a modern day firearm's double stack magazine.  It would probably be something like 4 1/2" wide if that were the case.  gives me an idea though

[Quorren]

Not unless he staggered the bolts like a modern day firearm's double stack magazine.  It would probably be something like 4 1/2" wide if that were the case.  gives me an idea though

He could do that, I guess. But then he wouldn't be using the same design as the model he is basing his crossbow off of: he would have to alter it and even then it would be over a foot which is managable but not what Mordor is planning on. There was a reason the example crossbow had only 4 bolts equipped at a time.

[Kyrnn Wolfsbane]

having not watched the youtube link posted, my mind immediately thought of the chinese repeating crossbows with the box magazines.  I retract my earlier statement.  having said that, I don't believe that the empty magazine(more like a stripper clip really) would be more than a foot tall, but with the arrows would be larger.  Hopefully once Mordor posts the completed crossbow my understanding of the design will be better.

looking at the video makes me want to build a ballista using golf tube arrows in a similar way.  might be something i should draw up. 

[Quorren]

having not watched the youtube link posted, my mind immediately thought of the chinese repeating crossbows with the box magazines.  I retract my earlier statement.  having said that, I don't believe that the empty magazine(more like a stripper clip really) would be more than a foot tall, but with the arrows would be larger.  Hopefully once Mordor posts the completed crossbow my understanding of the design will be better.

looking at the video makes me want to build a ballista using golf tube arrows in a similar way.  might be something i should draw up.

You might think that this is fun, then, Krynn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cSfdepNqcg&feature=related

But anyway, typical bolts could perhaps stack ten high and be fairly short. But it cannot be done with boffer arrows, at least not with the fan clip thing. At the absolute minimum the bolt heads are 2.5" in diameter. Like Joe said when he did the math, they will need at least 1/4" between them. Assuming everything is made perfectly with no variation and the arrows are all min specced, you still have 26", so over two feet.

But that's on paper, I bet it would be even larger in real life. Having a clip that is half as tall as you may not be practical. But maybe you want to look like you stole Detritus's weapon, I don't know. Still, I will give you props if you make a legal, functioning larp repeating crossbow.
 

[Mordor]

You all misunderstand me
This 32 inch is OK(I calculated with 34). But a "chinese fan" is not a box!!!
It's a half circle! so 34 inch=is rπ(pi). r is so 10,83 inch=0,89 foot!!!
It's bigger in reality, but never over one and half foot!!!
Arrows are not falling to fire position, they are rotated to... Maybe a small spring needed to help the gravity...

[Quorren]

Oh, I guess we assumed, at least I did, that you were going to do a direct copy of the bow in the youtube video. I am curious how you plan to have a rotating fan clip. That is going to have to be some interesting engineering.

[Mordor]

The form will be different, the mag capacity totally... I can't see the nock-system, I made my own plans. I plan changeable magazine, folding stock, pistol grip. I think different trigger system. 2nd trigger to release the magazine. etc. so I think his repeating crossbow is as different from a single shot one, as my one from his.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

How much would you want for one these? not the repeater version but the one at the top? Dont short change yourself either I like knowing I'm paying craftsmen what they deserve.

Get a hold of me on facebook (John Meyer) or the tartarus invictus boards.

[Brogg LeathaFlesh]

... i want one.

[Oznog88]

Steel does not perform all that well, even properly tempered spring steel.  It's good for being nigh indestructible and capable of extremely high poundages, but it's not efficient.

The SCA did a lot with 6061 aluminum, but it became infamous for stress fracturing and that's pretty much unavoidable.  Later, they wised up to 7075 aluminum, which has much greater fatigue resistance than 6061.  Still, it's generally got a lifespan of ~2000 shots, assuming no dry firing occurs.

People have used FG flats, but they have 2 major problems there- one, they lack recurve tips and that drastically reduces performance and/or requires an unusually wide bow.  Two, an FG flat experiences excessive bending in the middle and that almost always results in cracking there.  Some people kinda get around that by stacking more FG there, and it "kinda" works, although still rather inefficient.

Now I use custom-ground recurve fiberglass.  It's efficient, physically light, the ends aren't dangerous, and as far as I can tell, immortal- I had problems with the trigger for awhile and ended up dry firing it like a hundred times.  No cracking.

[Mordor]

Sadly in the near future I don't have time to make crossbows for sale... Even the bone inlay is a terribly slow, and hard work to make... The other problem is the prod, beacuse a friend made it for me. He said, that he wouldn't make it businesslike.

I think that the disadvantages of flat steel can't be noticed while larping... It's not precision-performance shooting... Look of steel prod with nice bone-oak-walnut material far overcompensates all negatives...

Power can be precisely adjusted by selecting the string length. Roughly by the bow diameter.
I'll use glassfiber prod for the repeating one, not beacuse of it's performance, but beacuse it's low weight.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

Well fortunately I have a metal shop and a woodshop at my disposal and arms length away so, if you could just answer a few questions for me I think I can handle the rest.

What type of steel is the prod constructed of exactly (1050? 4130? etc)
where did ya get the bone and how did ya get it flat?
what poundage do you think you could safely raise this thing to?
IS the foot holder necessary to draw the bow, or is it just there for looks? I get that if that thing fell off the bow would still function and all but does the addition of the stirrup truly help in drawing such a low poundage back? in short

is the work it takes to make the stirrup worth the benefits?

The rest I am sure I can scrounge up with the miracle of google and *gasp* reading.

Thanks for your time! If ya ever get into business let me know!

[Oznog88]

Power can be precisely adjusted by selecting the string length. Roughly by the bow diameter

Power can't readily be adjusted with string length.  That's a complicated issue with a lot of caveats.  In fact, from "optimum", there's often a range where loosening the string lowers the poundage but actually increases shot power slightly.  Then it gets really far out of tune.  When the string actually gets "loose" (I've seen this done- people tie it tightly or duct tape it on the loops to keep it on) the shock upon firing is very severe on the prod's materials.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

Well with all the fancy numbers and technical talk aside is there a way to make these adjustable? Something unobtrusive hopefully, I like this crossbow a lot as its the first dag crossbow I've seen that looks like its historical counterpart and not a wad of fiberglass on the end of a block of wood.

[Sir Magnus of Narnia]

Well with all the fancy numbers and technical talk aside is there a way to make these adjustable? Something unobtrusive hopefully, I like this crossbow a lot as its the first dag crossbow I've seen that looks like its historical counterpart and not a wad of fiberglass on the end of a block of wood.

What you have never seen mine?

[Hanzo of Narnia]

its so low powered you never use it! though it is gorgeous!

[Sir Magnus of Narnia]

its so low powered you never use it! though it is gorgeous!

Yeah sadly when I bought it that was all the juice I was allowed. I keep think about getting a new one.

[hivemind]

I'm pretty sure this Mordor guy's not even in North America, let alone a Dag player, so the chances of us having to worry about getting this through weapons check is essentially nil.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

I'm pretty sure this Mordor guy's not even in North America, let alone a Dag player, so the chances of us having to worry about getting this through weapons check is essentially nil.

lol and here I was thinking an actual American dagorhirrim had the initiative to make something this cool...I should go back to my pessimism about this game.

[Oznog88]

I think that the disadvantages of flat steel can't be noticed while larping... It's not precision-performance shooting... Look of steel prod with nice bone-oak-walnut material far overcompensates all negatives...

Actually it's quite notable.

There's a somewhat tight window where crossbows aren't good for point-blank use and where they aren't practical because people just won't feel them and you have to keep working out how a person who got tapped by an underpowered arrow and didn't know and went marching through your lines and killed another 3 people and trying to reverse the deaths.... it's a problem.

In my experience, 400-450ip is good.  Once you get into the 300-something ip range, it becomes too frequent that people at normal ranges won't notice getting hit a lot of the time.

Steel prods are pretty bad for efficiency.  IIRC I heard they could be as bad as 50%.  Which leaves the situation where a physically appropriate IP range may end up just not getting called.  A system where the output speed with a standard bolt weight is measured, that'd neatly sidestep the problem, but such a concept is rarely considered.

[Mordor]

So many questions...

1. Bone is from cow-leg, by us known as "marrowbone". Fine soup can be made from it.
It has not totally circle shape cross section... it's bit triangular . The longer, bigger and older animals are better...
2. Poundage will be about 25lbs(larp bows 25-30 by us). It can be adjusted by changing the string length. If 26 lbs... you need a bit longer string.
But this option is not endless, you heve to plan the prod-form before cutting it!!!
3. I have a 20lbs glass fiber bow from my childhood, so I think it can be easily pulled while placing the end on your stomack. Making stirrup takes no time compared to bone parts... it looks damm good too.
4. I have too ask the steel type. Extreme heating should be avioded by cutting the form...
5. I live in the EU(Middle-East-Europe), we got dozens of ruined castles to play there...

[Mordor]

So, I have to assembly, and cut the place of the bolt into the nut. Wood is oiled, and waxed... naturally sanded too...


I made a new trigger too...

[Hiram the Incredible]

European LARPers kinda have an unfair advantage. You see here in the US we call it LARPing.. over there they just call "the way my great great great grandpa used to do it"

so unfair.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

European LARPers kinda have an unfair advantage. You see here in the US we call it LARPing.. over there they just call "the way my great great great grandpa used to do it"

so unfair.

US Larpers are just lazy and apparently incapable of doing anything that requires reading, time, or money,

[Sir Magnus of Narnia]

European LARPers kinda have an unfair advantage. You see here in the US we call it LARPing.. over there they just call "the way my great great great grandpa used to do it"

so unfair.

US Larpers are just lazy and apparently incapable of doing anything that requires reading, time, or money,

Hey now there son Not all American LARPers are lazy. Back before you had this new fangled Cell-phones and the interwebs, we were in the trenches making it happen. You kids got it easy.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

I think you guys might of lost that war though 

[Sir Magnus of Narnia]

Eh. I don't want derail this with a long rant about my opinionson American LARP.

[Jack Stewart III]

Magnus, remember Nike.

JUST DO EET!!!

[Quorren]

European LARPers kinda have an unfair advantage. You see here in the US we call it LARPing.. over there they just call "the way my great great great grandpa used to do it"

so unfair.

We have that and it is called a civil war re-enactment.

[Mordor]

Nearly finished:

[Mordor]

Finished(except some additional things for safety, something covered by pompoms on the ends of the bow, and larpsafe arowheads):

[Atalan]

European LARPers kinda have an unfair advantage. You see here in the US we call it LARPing.. over there they just call "the way my great great great grandpa used to do it"

so unfair.

We have that and it is called a civil war re-enactment.

Which leaves those of us who's ancestors moved in after the ACW really screwed.

[Fayne Erving]

Can we get a youtube link of this thing in action?

[stylgar]

European LARPers kinda have an unfair advantage. You see here in the US we call it LARPing.. over there they just call "the way my great great great grandpa used to do it"

so unfair.

We have that and it is called a civil war re-enactment.

Which leaves those of us who's ancestors moved in after the War of Northern Aggression really screwed.

FTFY