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Author Topic: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?  (Read 4174 times)

Offline Kensii

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2011, 08:49:20 pm »
The unit I am petitioning for is Red and White colors so I am gonna try and get black pants and a red and white gi and vest thing (the name slipped my mind as well).
"So, what does the Vanguard do?"
"Smash stuff really hard."
"And?"
"No, that's about it.

Offline Squire Lizard

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2011, 12:56:53 am »
I wonder if FB means the Hitatari.... I would assume so.

You can also find that pattern on the Sengoku Daimyo page Ichiro-san posted earlier. REALLY good things on that site.

Honestly, Draw cuts are the only house rule in Mordor and we say the weapon must be serrated... Let me tell you it really goes no where as no one does it. It was a silly house rule to be honest, but I learned that stepping in with a good solid two handed shot to the abdomen with the bottom 6" of the blade and then stepping through and pulling the blade out and away and do the "flick".... OH yeah. :D That's as close to RP as I really get.

Being Evil is not RP by the way :P That is just being human
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Offline Seiichirô

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2011, 10:29:55 am »
Regarding hand sewing... get yer zen on.  It's good for the fingertips.

Hitatare or kataginu look sharp when they match the hakama.

@Forkbeard: Doing an armor build from kozane?  That's going to look AMAZING!
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Offline Kensii

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2011, 10:59:24 am »
What material do you suggest I get my hands on?
"So, what does the Vanguard do?"
"Smash stuff really hard."
"And?"
"No, that's about it.

Offline Seiichirô

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2011, 11:15:51 am »
Linen, muslin and silk.  I'm looking to start using hemp instead of linen next.

I haven't really worked much with silk, but nice for kosode.

I tend to make my outer layers (kosode/hakama/kataginu) from linen and my inner layers from muslin.

Have some tabi in the works that are just in cotton for now.  Fundoshi will be out of thin muslin eventually.
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Offline Silk

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2011, 11:24:15 am »
I haven't really worked much with silk

^This is a shame.
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Offline Jari Kafghan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2011, 11:25:55 am »
Silk is a pleasure to work with!

Offline Oisín Leathshúileach

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2011, 11:46:35 am »
I don't like her much.  :P

(luv ya silk, you know i just like to be contrary)
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Offline Seiichirô

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2011, 11:50:02 am »
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Offline Frontinus

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2011, 02:57:01 pm »
The Knights Templar used to be a historical Japanese themed unit called Taizen.  They fought without shields using mainly spears, which is why several of them are wicked spearmen to this day.  I think to be effective at dagorhir a more combined arms approach, aka mixing spearmen with S&B and archers, was called for, or they all just really got pumped up after watching Kingdom of Heaven.
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Offline Silk

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2011, 06:52:02 am »
I believe there were a number of reasons that Taizen disbanded and members re-formed under the Templar banner. Without getting into their internal politics, I'll say that while they had the right idea weapon and tactic wise for a Japanese unit, their clothes were almost exclusively blue colored karate gi. Insulting diminutives abounded.

Suffice to say, they make much better Templars! :)
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Offline Disirregardlessly hivemind

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2011, 12:27:07 pm »
To return to the original question of this post...

This is why: http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=20892.0
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Offline Kensii

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2011, 01:27:11 pm »
Yeah I saw that, I was like "ugh here we go".

But I think that as a general rule I notice that Samurai are just looked down upon (almost anything asian kind of is) and I noticed that there is clearly not very many asian personas. Just observations.
"So, what does the Vanguard do?"
"Smash stuff really hard."
"And?"
"No, that's about it.

Offline Ser Si Cassius of House Tull

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2011, 02:23:34 pm »
I really don't think there is a lack of Eastern/Asian personas, they dramatically outnumber Middle Eastern, African and American personas.  The major problem I feel is that a large number of samurai/ronin/shogun/etc. personas half ass their garb and gear, making it difficult for players to imagine "this is a traveling warrior from the far east" instead of "this dude didn't want to put any effort into his garb so he just wore his old karate duds".

Offline Alric

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2011, 02:36:02 pm »
There's also the nerd stereotype we've all encountered of 'katanas are so awesome, I once cut through an engine block with my katana, katanas are stronger than any other sword evar!' that makes a lot of us cringe whenever we see badly-done anime fanboy characters.

Offline Silk

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2011, 02:46:35 pm »
Oddly enough this cringe-factor seems to come from a high regard for the culture in general. Many who would accept a poorly done barbarian or viking don't think twice about shooting down a crappily done Samurai because "You're doing it wrong! Jeezuz Christ how do you not know you're doing it wrong!"

Many of the people you get this reaction from will be closet fan-boys with historical tendencies.

I'm not trying to single anyone out, but there are more of us who think we know all about samurai than there are who think they know all about more Anglican personae. My guess is because there are so many different kinds of white folk throughout history that you have to be specific, but there's only so many periods and cultures from Japan. TV has made us all experts in this relatively narrow field and we'll be damned if some drooling kid is going to make the rest of us geeks look bad. /rant
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Offline Janwin

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2011, 02:57:50 pm »
Wait, you mean there weren't only 8 major clans?  You know, the Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Mantis, Phoenix, Scorpion and Unicorn?  Oh, well, the Shadowlands too, but they're less 'clan' than 'oni'...

I play L5R.  I obviously know more about samurai history and culture than you.  Neener.

 :o ::)
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Offline Silk

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #67 on: January 18, 2011, 03:03:33 pm »
Exactly!

Though even a L5R based Character would be something. I loved some of the clothes in the d20 system book for that setting. I just wouldn't claim to be a Samurai, ya know?
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Offline Karina

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #68 on: January 18, 2011, 03:12:14 pm »
The unit I am petitioning for is Red and White colors so I am gonna try and get black pants and a red and white gi and vest thing (the name slipped my mind as well).

*coughs* BF colors are Black and Red *coughs*
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Offline Jari Kafghan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #69 on: January 18, 2011, 03:20:38 pm »
The REAL question is why aren't there more dwarves?

Offline Whisper Moonson

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #70 on: January 18, 2011, 03:23:24 pm »
Too many horizontal lines in samurai armor. It makes them look even shorter.
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Offline Janwin

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2011, 03:42:54 pm »
Exactly!

Though even a L5R based Character would be something. I loved some of the clothes in the d20 system book for that setting. I just wouldn't claim to be a Samurai, ya know?


Come to GenCon, Silk.   ;)  I'm currently discussing with a number of L5R friends of mine about the feasibility of an L5R Dag unit for ****s and giggles.

There's a number of people who dress up as characters at events and participate in costume contests.

Though they actually to look (for the most part) the part.

One of my friends has taken it a step too far...  While he was in Japan, he commissioned a kimono and full set of armor...  Couple thousand dollars, hand made and custom.   ???

I'm working on my outfit for the character I played in a number of forum games.  Shinjo Al'Asim.

For Shinjo!   ;)
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Offline Alric

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2011, 04:06:13 pm »
The REAL question is why aren't there more dwarves?

Beard impotence.

Even the dwarves we have suffer from it.

Offline Seiichirô

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2011, 04:16:36 pm »
Too many horizontal lines in samurai armor. It makes them look even shorter.

Which is why my next kit will be a vertical plate version (tatehagi-do).  Very slimming.
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Offline Jari Kafghan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2011, 04:38:15 pm »
The REAL question is why aren't there more dwarves?

Beard impotence.

Even the dwarves we have suffer from it.

Bah shouldn't let that slow them down!

Offline Kensii

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #75 on: January 18, 2011, 07:50:55 pm »
The unit I am petitioning for is Red and White colors so I am gonna try and get black pants and a red and white gi and vest thing (the name slipped my mind as well).

*coughs* BF colors are Black and Red *coughs*

*facepalm* Oh dear, I'm a turd. I think I got that from somewhere else I just don't now why. Wow.
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"Smash stuff really hard."
"And?"
"No, that's about it.

Offline Atalan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2011, 11:12:46 pm »
The REAL question is why aren't there more dwarves?

Beard impotence.

Even the dwarves we have suffer from it.

Yeah, I have to go to these professional meetings and stuff and in general, sports administrators frown on anyone besides offensive linemen and hockey players having beards that reach their chest. If I want to have a chance at having a job, I need to be clean shaven. I suppose I could look into a prosthetic beard...

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Offline Jari Kafghan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2011, 11:17:10 pm »
i have yet to see good fake beards. I would love to find em though

Offline Forkbeard Rex

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2011, 09:42:33 am »
A good beard is hard to find.
I have the most dwarf like beard I know of. Its 6 feet off the ground, though.
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Offline Karina

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2011, 11:15:46 am »


Just throwing that out there, hehe
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Offline Squire Ducky McFeelgood

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #80 on: January 19, 2011, 11:22:36 am »
When you guys are at Rag, look up Lothar. His beard is Amazing.
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Offline Scheiny the Space Oracle

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #81 on: January 19, 2011, 11:03:39 pm »
Yeah I saw that, I was like "ugh here we go".

But I think that as a general rule I notice that Samurai are just looked down upon (almost anything asian kind of is) and I noticed that there is clearly not very many asian personas. Just observations.

from the female perspective, i wouldn't be surprised that a lack of female asian characters is due to our culture's perception of their culture.  unless you're going to cross dress, the first image of a Japanese woman is that of a geisha.  and a lot of people misunderstand geisha to be whores.

even without that misconception, it wouldn't necessarily be fun to play.  lots of other cultures repress women, but the women manage to still have a dangerous edge that i feel the run of the mill geisha lacks.  even when you think of harem girls you think of women so ridiculously sexy you lose control of yourself.  and belly dancers with swords?  what a great look-but-don't-touch tension.  no one loses control over a geisha, that's the entire point of them, being obedient.

although, someone playing a geisha and joining the Assassins Tourney would be totally badass!
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Offline Oisín Leathshúileach

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #82 on: January 19, 2011, 11:55:31 pm »
Yeah I saw that, I was like "ugh here we go".

But I think that as a general rule I notice that Samurai are just looked down upon (almost anything asian kind of is) and I noticed that there is clearly not very many asian personas. Just observations.

To give a more honest answer, as Alric and Silk brought up, the main reason that people really frown on Japanese characters is the perception (and often, tbh, the fact) of anime fanboyisms.  The cult of the ninja, the cult of the samurai, the cult of the katana . . . these are pretty heavily frowned upon in many circles.

And Silk . . . I don't think you can accuse me of having my fanboyisms closeted.  :P
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Offline Seiichirô

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2011, 09:26:36 am »
from the female perspective, i wouldn't be surprised that a lack of female asian characters is due to our culture's perception of their culture.  unless you're going to cross dress, the first image of a Japanese woman is that of a geisha.  and a lot of people misunderstand geisha to be whores.

This reply brings Zatoichi to mind.
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Offline Kotaro

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2011, 09:36:20 am »
I won't lie, my persona was a ninja for a while. I then realized that not only was it a bad fit for my fighting preference, but it was completely against the idea of the hidden operative. Having reached that conclusion, I evolved my character into more of a samurai that doesn't always play by the rules if it means winning against a superior foe.

I'm not a fanboy (far from it, anime fanboys and samurai-cultists aggravate me). I do find Japanese warfare intriguing, though. Also, a shield never really felt right in my hands, so I chose a persona that doesn't use one. Problem solved.
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Offline Duke

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2011, 12:10:31 pm »
Maybe it has to do with the subliminal message found on the Dagorhir main website.

"DARK AGE EUROPE MEETS TOLKIEN'S MIDDLE EARTH IN A
SAFE & ACTION-PACKED NATIONAL LIVE ACTION BATTLE GAME
Experience yesterday's fun today!"

Now, I don't remember my history lessons all that well, but I don't think the Samurai were too active in Europe during the dark ages.

On a personal note, as long as people play by rules and are there to have fun, I don't much mind which culture or fantastic character they portray.

Offline Silk

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2011, 12:52:22 pm »
That's right, Oisin, you are firmly OUT of the closet. ;)

Janwin, I will make it back to GenCon one day, and I will probably be a geek in some kind of costume, I can probably put together a L5R type kit.
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Offline Oisín Leathshúileach

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2011, 10:49:17 pm »
* Oisín Leathshúileach whistles and sharpens his axe.

Damn, there was an iron bar across the door out of the closet.  Nicked the blade.  ;)
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Offline Silk

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2011, 06:35:00 am »
What? You used an axe? Why not hack through it with a katana? I mean.. as the pinnacle of sword engineering it could have cut through it like butter! /smarm
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Offline Kotaro

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2011, 10:10:41 am »
*snerk*
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Offline Kensii

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2011, 02:03:17 pm »
What? You used an axe? Why not hack through it with a katana? I mean.. as the pinnacle of sword engineering it could have cut through it like butter! /smarm

YES!!! Katanas are so ^#&$#&% awesome!!! /annoyance
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Offline Kotaro

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2011, 02:31:54 pm »
Katanas can cut through a tank! No joke, I saw it on the internet! /stupid
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Offline Squire Lizard

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2011, 10:10:58 pm »
AHHAHAHahahahahahaha..... I love kantana fanboyisms lol.

Come on guys, we all know that ANY katana cuts through things on a molecular level just because they are magical things made by short, angry men... ;)

As an eastern personae, I really do cringe when ever I see folks roll out on the field anywhere dressed in a gi or half assed japo garb. Which unfortunately is quite often :(
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Offline Kensii

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2011, 02:09:44 am »
As an eastern personae, I really do cringe when ever I see folks roll out on the field anywhere dressed in a gi or half assed japo garb. Which unfortunately is quite often :(

I agree, which is why I am at least trying to make some good looking garb.

But back to OP, does anyone else have any reasons other than garb that they are against Samurai/Japanese/Far Eastern personas?
"So, what does the Vanguard do?"
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Offline Jack Stewart III

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2011, 10:03:02 pm »
I don't look down on Samurai...
Until they're lying on the ground dead, then it's kind of hard to look at them any other way.
First Order of the Frostborne, Lieutenant du Roi of the Green Hilted Swords and Heir to the House of Stewart.

Royalty should lead by example in a time of plight, inspire confidence in a time of doubt, and give hope in a time of despair.

Offline Atalan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2011, 11:52:39 pm »


Just throwing that out there, hehe

Did you make those yourself? A girl in my unit wants to knit herself a fake beard like those.
Treasurer, Fury of the Called.
When it comes to (screwing) around, we don't (screw) around.
Hastae petiunt veritatem, veritas est colei.
The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michaelangelo

Offline Karina

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2011, 05:24:58 am »
I have the pattern for them, but i haven't attempted to use it yet, nope.
Quote from: Drunken Bob
Quote from: Kurai D'elacroix
Never realized how tiny she was till I finally met her at Gates
me neither. she is almost barrel tall

Offline Atalan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2011, 06:34:34 pm »
Where did you find the pattern?
Treasurer, Fury of the Called.
When it comes to (screwing) around, we don't (screw) around.
Hastae petiunt veritatem, veritas est colei.
The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michaelangelo

Offline Karina

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2011, 06:41:47 pm »
Ravelry.com it's a knitting/crocheting site.
Quote from: Drunken Bob
Quote from: Kurai D'elacroix
Never realized how tiny she was till I finally met her at Gates
me neither. she is almost barrel tall

Offline Atalan

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Re: Why are Samurai personas looked down upon?
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2011, 01:39:46 am »
Thank you.
Treasurer, Fury of the Called.
When it comes to (screwing) around, we don't (screw) around.
Hastae petiunt veritatem, veritas est colei.
The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michaelangelo