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Author Topic: New armour (not Orkish)  (Read 4681 times)

Brogg LeathaFlesh

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New armour (not Orkish)
« on: February 02, 2011, 02:24:22 pm »
For some time now, people have been voicing that my ork armour is an abomination, and for that I thank you.


But due to the fact that I don't always want to be an orc and I'd like to dig into my Celtic ancestory. I've started on a Primative Celtic suit of armour, but still with a sence of art to make it look good. I wanted to go for the idea of minimal armour, but I also have a shoulder guard that I lack pictures of.









Mind the look on my face, these were taken at 4:30 in the morning. I pulled an all-nighter to finish the the belt.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 02:31:43 pm »
very nice
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 02:38:36 pm »
looking good, might want to bevel your edges, i notice that always seems to be one of the first things more experienced leatherworkers recommend. i personally would pick one colour tie rather than the two you have now (red and black) other than that i like this a lot more than the orc armour.
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Ilyas ibn Yahya

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 03:54:02 pm »
Your celtic ancestors would weep to see you use those runes.
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Brogg LeathaFlesh

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 04:13:29 pm »
What, my Druidic Celtic ancestors wouldn't like me using Druidic symbols? I'm sorry ancestors, I didn't know you'd dislike my use of your/my religion.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 04:30:53 pm »
What, my Druidic Celtic ancestors wouldn't like me using Druidic symbols? I'm sorry ancestors, I didn't know you'd dislike my use of your/my religion.

Those runes, they look germanic.

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Brogg LeathaFlesh

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 05:48:02 pm »
You should read up on Celts my friend, they in fact lived in the area from Ireland to Romania, some historians even account them living in the area of Asia Minor. This meaning the Celtic People of Ireland had a fairly close belief system to those of Germany and farther. So this Symbols were used by German Celts and the Irish Celts.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 08:34:01 pm »
Could be wrong, but when people talk about "Celtic runes" isn't the ogham alphabet more accurately what's being referred to, rather than the futhark?
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 08:43:22 pm »
'Germanic' is actually a technical term that refers to people groups thought to share a common language, culture, and religion, used by historians to distinguish them from Celtic people (another group thought to share a common language, culture, and religion). You can't, by definition, have a Germanic Celt (a Celt living in what is modern day Germany wouldn't become 'Germanic').

Those runes look like the runes of the Futharc/Futhorc, a runic alphabet developed in Northern Europe and common in Scandinavia and Anglo-Saxon England among the 'Germanic' culture of the migration period and early middle ages. I don't know of any connection these runes have with the druidic cult that existed in Britain several centuries earlier, but this isn't something I've really studied.
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Kensman Ilariia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 09:07:11 pm »
Those runes look like the runes of the Futharc/Futhorc, a runic alphabet developed in Northern Europe and common in Scandinavia and Anglo-Saxon England among the 'Germanic' culture of the migration period and early middle ages. I don't know of any connection these runes have with the druidic cult that existed in Britain several centuries earlier, but this isn't something I've really studied.

They don't.  That would be the Elder Futhark and very 'Viking' of you.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 09:10:32 pm »
instead of shoe strings it would look much better with leather lace.
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Brogg LeathaFlesh

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 11:31:46 pm »
Those runes look like the runes of the Futharc/Futhorc, a runic alphabet developed in Northern Europe and common in Scandinavia and Anglo-Saxon England among the 'Germanic' culture of the migration period and early middle ages. I don't know of any connection these runes have with the druidic cult that existed in Britain several centuries earlier, but this isn't something I've really studied.

They don't.  That would be the Elder Futhark and very 'Viking' of you.

And very druidic of me, kind of like how the viking god Tyr started out as a Celtic god, which his symbol is the first symbol in the row around my war belt.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 12:04:00 am »
What sources are you reading this from, if I can ask?
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 12:18:25 am »
Where is Usheen when we need him?
Celtic isn't really what you think it is.

As a person of Irish descent and can trace my lineage back pretty damn far I have to say... those don't look too "celtic" to me...
~spits~ I can't believe I said it in a post TWICE!!
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 01:19:22 am »
I'm cringing. Runes are not Celtic. Seriously. Runes are 100% Germanic. As far as is known, the Celts did not develop a writing system of their own, preferring an oral tradition. When they needed to write something down, they borrowed the Latin alphabet. Even ogham, the stone inscription alphabet that was used exclusively for grave and boundary markers, was a fairly recent invention, traced only as far back as the 2nd century CE, if that early.

Regarding things Celtic, you'd be wise to consider anything that's not published by a university press to be at least 50% BS. There's a lot of crap, fantasy, and misinformation out there. Tread carefully. You can find good info about Celts, but you have to dig for it.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2011, 06:44:05 am »
What sources are you reading this from, if I can ask?

Seconded. I'm not sure what Earth you are living on.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 06:54:45 am by Ilariia Bulochnika »
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2011, 07:21:26 am »
Just tell people you killed a viking for it. Those straps look awesome. And beveling edges is over-rated.
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Brogg LeathaFlesh

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2011, 11:12:45 am »
I'm pretty sure i said Druidic runes, if I did say celtic runes then i correct myself. Otherwise, your not arguing any point. I made a "Celtic" war-belt and put "Druidic" Runes on it, thats it.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2011, 12:22:40 pm »
Yea, actual celtic history is tough to track down.

They did have symbols, patterns, and "runes", but they were more akin to how the Hebrew language is a series of glyphs. They were dropped in favor of the languages surrounding them, I.E. latin, etc.
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Kensman Ilariia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 05:39:00 pm »
I'm pretty sure i said Druidic runes, if I did say celtic runes then i correct myself. Otherwise, your not arguing any point. I made a "Celtic" war-belt and put "Druidic" Runes on it, thats it.

How is that any better?  Druids didn't use runes, if anything they used Ogham, and that was a rarity.  Runes are strictly a Germanic based thing.

Still waiting on those sources.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2011, 05:50:55 pm »
Don't listen to them! It looks awesome, and that's the important bit. Who cares if it's perfectly period anyways?
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2011, 06:02:13 pm »
Druids used the Oghm. Oghm are NOT runes...
Why do you always have to argue with everyone here? Do some PROPER research, which is hard on this subject but you CAN yield good info.
Yeah the armor looks good for armor but you cannot pass it off as a "celtic" thing. It is what it is.

 ::)

I got your back Ilariia...now where the **** is Usheen with his .50 caliber tongue of doom?
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2011, 06:06:56 pm »
I don't think he's getting picked on for it being out-of-period-- it's the spreading-misinformation-about-history thing that gets people's hackles up.

I'd say that if you're doing non-historical things, awesome! Embrace them and make them look fantastic. I think it's great when people are inspired by history. Just don't claim that 'historically inspired' is the same thing as 'historically accurate,' and s'cool by me.

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2011, 06:32:42 pm »
Oh. Massive misinterpretation on my part, huh?
 
I presume there will be garb underneath?
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 07:01:09 pm »
Bro-fist?

And Ilsa hit it on the head.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2011, 07:09:42 pm »
Nice belt, I wish I could make something like that.  I'll second belofalbion and Danielle, it might look even better with just one colour or leather lacing.

I'd also be really interested in knowing your source as well.  As a student of a druidic path myself, it's quite frustrating trying to sort out the accurate information from the fluff, but unfortunately where the Celts (and especially the Druids) are concerned, there seems to be a great deal of shoddy scholarship. 

The concept of a purely druidic writing system doesn't make sense because as Caesar noted, "The Druids believe that their religion forbids them to commit their teachings to writing, although for most other purposes, such as public and private accounts, the Gauls use the Greek alphabet.  But I imagine that this rule was originally established for other reason - because they did not want their doctrine to become public property, and in order to prevent their pupils from relying on the written word and neglecting to train their memories; for it is usually found that when people have the help of texts, they are less diligent in learning by heart, and let their memories rust"  Not that there's any problem with a neopagan druid using runes or ogham, it just seems that the paleopagan druids didn't.

If you're looking for sources on the druids, ADF's recommended reading list for dedicants has some decent ones: http://www.adf.org/training/resources/reading.html  I personally really enjoyed Ellis' "The Druids".
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2011, 01:47:25 pm »
Decent looking armor, Brogg. Don't let history buffs get you down, just realize that you won't win a history fight against historians/archaeologists unless you're gonna provide sources.

Of course, the way to avoid all this hubbub is to say
"hey, look at my armor, it's fantasy pseudo-Celto/barbarian."

The armor is cool, man. Just realize that unsupported statements that contradict actual historical research, will likely bring an uproar from this crowd.

Keep enjoying Dagorhir.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2011, 01:52:41 pm »
Additionally, if you're of any spiritual persuasion, you may want to check with your nearest Asatru to find out what the Runes on your belt mean. For some people/spirits, you could be sending the wrong message.

I have personally just abstain from using any language/symbols that I don't know what they mean. Whether that be for tattoos/shield painting/etc.

It's kinda like I don't really mess with Tarot Cards or Ouiji (sp?) boards. I've heard of too much craziness happening for me to want to even tempt an experience.
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Brogg LeathaFlesh

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2011, 03:52:01 pm »
My source is Amber Wolfe's book "Druid Power", which is where a majority of my inspiration came from. It is a Neopaganism/Neodruidism book.
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2011, 04:52:25 pm »
My source is Amber Wolfe's book "Druid Power", which is where a majority of my inspiration came from. It is a Neopaganism/Neodruidism book.

If you would like a good Druid primer I suggest anything written by John Michael Greer.. But alas, those are Nordic Runes... Both are claimed by Brythonic and Old Germanic.. depending on which side of the channel you are on... unless your in Scandinavia, they just call them "ours".






 

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2011, 05:20:20 pm »
Additionally, if you're of any spiritual persuasion, you may want to check with your nearest Asatru

*waves* Hi, I'm one of a number Asatru/Heathens on this board and have been doing Rune Study for a number of years.  Let me know if you want to keep working with runes and can point you to some good source and starter material.  :)
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2011, 05:30:18 pm »
I read through the introduction of that book, and it has a very... interesting take on the religious history of the middle ages. It seems to be more historical fiction and old fashioned (pre-WWII era) ideas of folk memory than anything else. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2011, 05:49:34 pm »
Either way, for some of you, I accept your thoughts and thank you for what you've said in giving me more input.. others I simply want to hit with my mallet.

Also, I stand corrected on many accounts, but I nontheless stand by my leatherwork, it's a passion I have. I'm still happy to call it my Celtic armour because it is a celtic war-belt design with my own flare. I hope you guy like it and I hope you like my next work, Lizard skin armour.  ;D
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2011, 07:12:40 pm »
/facepalm

rofl
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2011, 12:46:52 am »
Somehow, I had a feeling a Llewellyn author was involved.  :-\ On the spiritual end of things, do look up Mr. Greer's work. He's a nice guy and a decent scholar. Other authors to read include Philip Carr Gomm, Erynn Rowan Laurie, and Alwyn and Brinley Rees. Also look up OBOD and Celtic Reconstruction. There's some good stuff out there, if you dig around.

Meanwhile, keep rocking the nice tooling work. :)
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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2011, 03:11:25 am »
Personally I like the ork armor. I wouldn't wear it mind you. But I like your characterization. I'm someone wants to be a roman they should wear roman armor. If you wanna be an Orc wear orcish armor.

Now having said this I love the belt. The helmet looks a bit bit but I can't tell if you've padded it. I agree with beveling the edges and only using one color. I'd also suggest making the kidney belt a bit thicker. Personally I like a kidney belt that comes down lower closer to where my hips. But that's personal preference.
Excellent first piece
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Brita Deirdresdatter

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2011, 02:04:31 am »
On the spiritual end of things, do look up Mr. Greer's work. He's a nice guy and a decent scholar. Other authors to read include Philip Carr Gomm, Erynn Rowan Laurie, and Alwyn and Brinley Rees. Also look up OBOD and Celtic Reconstruction.

Isaac Bonewits has some pretty good books as well. I just wouldn't recommend them if you're easily offended, he's unapologetically opinionated.  Robert Lee "Skip" Ellison's The Solitary Druid and Ian Corrigan's Sacred Fire, Holy Well were also interesting reads.
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Aric Coren Drasilvas the exile

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2011, 04:25:51 am »
Celts traded extensively with the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples, the classic "viking" horned helmet was actually a Celtic invention that the viking LOVED cause it made them scarier.
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Hanzo of Narnia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2011, 06:36:05 am »
Celts traded extensively with the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples, the classic "viking" horned helmet was actually a Celtic invention that the viking LOVED cause it made them scarier.

This is what makes me lose all faith in this game sometimes...
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Kensman Ilariia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2011, 06:38:02 am »
Celts traded extensively with the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples, the classic "viking" horned helmet was actually a Celtic invention that the viking LOVED cause it made them scarier.

/facepalm.
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Aiden

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2011, 09:58:14 am »
I used to have a personal rule that I wouldn't assert/argue a historical point until I had three independent, academic references. While that may be a little much for the avg board-junkie, just making sure you have an academic source, or any source would be a step above random assertions.
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Brita Deirdresdatter

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2011, 10:07:06 am »
Celts traded extensively with the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples, the classic "viking" horned helmet was actually a Celtic invention that the viking LOVED cause it made them scarier.

/facepalm.

Yep.  Aric, the horned helmets that have been found were almost certainly ceremonial in nature.  It doesn't make a great deal of sense to go into battle with what is essentially a pair of handlebars on your head.
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peikko

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2011, 10:32:00 am »
Celts traded extensively with the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples, the classic "viking" horned helmet was actually a Celtic invention that the viking LOVED cause it made them scarier.

This is what makes me lose all faith in this game sometimes...

+1 ::)
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Aric Coren Drasilvas the exile

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2011, 08:40:09 pm »
really? guys, this is why people do not use the forums as often as they should, example: new player " I wonder what sort of new stuff i could learn on the forums"
vet1 "you're wrong you suck"
vet 2 " no you're wrong and your mama is a ogre"
new player "forget this game, everyone argues too much"

please think of the game and not your forum rep, all I was saying is that if there was trade its always a possibility for mixed area/period garb this IS a FANTASY game and one can make whatever they want (as long as it follows the rules)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 08:44:19 pm by Aric Coren Drasilvas the exile »
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Hanzo of Narnia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2011, 08:53:07 pm »
You pretty much came off as making a factual claim which was dead wrong, forgive us for correcting you. Sometimes people arent looking for Fantasy stories about vikings, and its just as unfair to them to mislead with false statements and made up "facts"
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 08:55:50 pm by Hanzo of Narnia »
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Aric Coren Drasilvas the exile

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2011, 08:59:31 pm »
trade was "made up" ? ok...
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Hanzo of Narnia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2011, 09:02:20 pm »
please dont be coy, how bout the entire "vikings thought horned helms were scary"

seriously type "viking horned helmet" into google (it should take about 11 seconds) these are the first three things that come up (bare in ind you dont even have to click on the page just read the google excerpt)

Quote
Horned helmet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to Popular association with Vikings‎: But there is no evidence that horned helmets were ever worn in battle throughout the Viking Age. ...

Quote
http://Dec 7, 2004 ... No self-respecting Viking warrior ever wore a horned helmet in battle--they weren't that dumb. As anyone who has done any slaughtering can ...

Quote
http://The temporary mis-identification of a Bronze Age carving in Sweden with a horned helmet as Viking didn't help matters, although this was corrected in 1874. ...


hope that helps out...
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Kensman Ilariia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2011, 09:03:26 pm »
Celts traded extensively with the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples, the classic "viking" horned helmet was actually a Celtic invention that the viking LOVED cause it made them scarier.

/facepalm.
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Aric Coren Drasilvas the exile

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2011, 09:06:01 pm »
Ok well they still traded them, along with everything else...
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Hanzo of Narnia

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Re: New armour (not Orkish)
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2011, 09:07:58 pm »
Ok well they still traded them, along with everything else...

seriously?...this must be a trap, my logic and facts cant handle LARP BS of this magnitude...
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