Topic: Shots used while using a flail. (Read 988 times)

Brother Ranos Rask · « **on:** February 04, 2011, 02:06:22 am »

I finally got a flail and was wondering if any one had flail specific shots that I am not aware of.

I am normally a S&B or Bat and Board user, so the moves I have at this point are:
The Shoulder pop
Shield and weapon side wraps (added to shield edging and misdirecting false swings)
Spin and back cover slot shots
And being a shorter fighter I throw a ton of ground tap leg shots and just leg shots in general.
I have been known to throw a Jump Scorpion in the mix when no one is watching or to fake out newer fighters.

I have watched the Dueling trailer that Mithris so kindly put out and saw a few different shots that looked difficult without a little teaching, so any information on strikes would be awesome.

Ranos

Lofanza · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:20:22 am »

One of the things I first learned, and in my opinion is still one of the hardest things to remember, is to keep the flail moving. The flail is a momentum weapon and you want the ball/bag going from shot to shot. With a sword you can swing/pause/swing, but that limits both the speed and type of shot you can throw next when using a flail.
Another thing is to kindly learn where the haft is and is not. A lot of people dislike flails because people make flails and go around hitting people with part that isn't padded (sucks).
Try not to give the shots away. This comes with knowing your haft. If you don't have to watch your weapon or look at where you plan to throw the shot, you give less information away to your opponent.
Lastly, get used to putting the haft of your flail on your opponents shield so that the ball/bag can wrap and do what it does best. Hand-in-hand try and get 1 in. less than max rope length. I would give it some breathing room so that if it stretches (more like when it stretches) you won't have to change it as soon.

Hope this helps.

Brother Ranos Rask · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:30:13 am »

You have pin pointed all of the things I actually dont have a problem with hahah. I have 1 less inch rope. My weapon haft is short and more then often comes up short on my shots, so when I do hit, I connect with only the head. I don't have a problem with telegraphing my shots (I got a big shield to hide behind).

The one thing I will try to master is the constant motion. That is the one thing I guess I'll have to get over. I can totally see what you said with the swing/pause/swing and not being able to throw my next flail shot.

Rim hennaid
Ranos

Fug · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:33:38 am »

How much does your flail weigh?
It will depend on how I answer your question.

Brother Ranos Rask · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:42:32 am »

I don't have an exact weight, but I'd say somewhere close to 16-18 oz.

Arrakis · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:42:45 am »

Length:
Exact Weight:
Exact Head Weight:
Chain Length:

Athron · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:13:47 pm »

We have a move called the Jump Scorpion now? I am behind the times.

Dane · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2011, 01:20:53 pm »

And the spin-and-back-cover slot shot. I don't know why you'd ever spin into a slot shot, but then again, I don't know why you'd jump into a scorpion, which I assume is the shield-side, over-the-top wrap shot "Scorpion."

As a shorter fighter, work the same-side hip to keep the shield honest, then go high.

I don't know what a ground-tap leg shot is, but if you're hitting the ground and then swinging at your opponent, stop it. That only works on bad fighters that you don't need silly tricks to beat, anyway.

Unless your shield has a lot of length, you'll want to avoid getting belly-to-belly with a sword/stick user; once their shield is in your armpit, you're never going to get sufficient force with a flail, and you can't stab.

The shoulder pop is a "meh"; it's hard to make it hit sufficiently. You've really got to swing to make it count with a flail because you don't get the concussion you would with a sword or bat. Now that you're swinging, you're not "popping" so much as "hammering." The shoulder pop is very much a "tagging" shot, in that it touches your opponent without really making a point, but the opponent takes it because he or she is embarrassed that he or she got hit by it. Where I'm at, we call light on light shots, so people don't throw that garbage.

Squire Lizard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:21:08 pm »

Yeah, the info Arrakis requested is necessary to answer the ? properly.
I know people who can "wrist flick" a flail head forward into a stab like attack. Attila of the DA comes to mind. It's a move I love working on. I say wrist flick because that is the only way to describe the motion.
Keep the head moving, chain shots together (not the same ones over and over though), and LEARN TO BLOCK WITH IT!! That last one is hard but important.

Solusar · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:35:00 pm »

Throw darksides. Lots of them.
Then pickup a sword and learn how to really fight like a man.

Askarus Space Beard · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:06:06 pm »

Quote from: Solusar on February 04, 2011, 07:35:00 pm

Throw darksides. Lots of them.
Then pickup a sword and learn how to really fight like a man.

love it.

darksides, scorpions, jumping spin shots. I'm to old for this madness!

Arrakis · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:09:52 pm »

He did say that he'd been watching that ridiculous Ragnarok Duels video...

Solusar · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:39:37 pm »

Hey, I'm in that! A lot! You see me stab the holy hell out of Ciwi.

Brother Ranos Rask · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:25:08 am »

Arrakis, they are rather rediculous, but watching them shows where the games highest standards are. Give me something to strive for in the future.
Length:1'6"
Exact Weight: 16.75 oz
Exact Head Weight: 5.7 oz
Chain Length: 5"

I figured the shots I "named" would at least get my point across, so those are the names that I gave them to keep track of while they run through my head when I use them. They are just my silly names.

Lizard, I had thought about that kind of shot. Kind of like a really short whip shot right? I would really like to try that out.

Dane, the spin slot shot I am talking about can be seen at about 40 seconds into the trailer for the Dueling video, Dev throws its. I use it with more foot work and misleading sword work. And the ground tapping I only do with swords/sticks. Around here there are alot of new people or not-so-regulars, so those types of tactics work. Just give me something to hit other then them so I can redirect the momentum.

Solusar, is there a proper way use or a series of set up shot to use a darkside? I have never tried such a shot.

Ranos

Alric · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:34:03 am »

Quote from: Arrakis on February 04, 2011, 10:09:52 pm

He did say that he'd been watching that ridiculous Ragnarok Duels video...

Hey now, I haven't seen it yet, but there are some good shots of me being chumped and dying very prettily on the trailer!

Brother Ranos Rask · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:39:31 am »

Alric, I strive to be as good at dying as you.

Epic deaths are more fun anyway.

Arrakis · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2011, 07:12:25 pm »

Quote from: Brother Ranos Rask on February 06, 2011, 02:25:08 am

Arrakis, they are rather rediculous, but watching them shows where the games highest standards are. Give me something to strive for in the future.
Length:1'6"

a) No. Just... no.

b) Your flail's TOTAL overall length is 18 inches??

Alric · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2011, 07:36:09 pm »

Would you be able, Arrakis, to suggest some better resources that Ranos Rask can look at for examples of great fighting?

Edit: I'm sorry, that sounded more curt than I meant it to. I meant to ask if you could share some of the better resources you know of so we can add to the knowledge base and help correct the idea that the best Dag fighters throw nothing but high crosses and shoulder pops, which seems to be the norm in what I've seen from that DVD.

Brother Ranos Rask · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:06:59 pm »

Stick is 1'6, plus the 5 in. chain, plus a 4 in. round ball.
So all together 2'3", sorry for the misunderstanding.

Arrakis · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:14:55 pm »

Quote from: Alric on February 06, 2011, 07:36:09 pm

Would you be able, Arrakis, to suggest some better resources that Ranos Rask can look at for examples of great fighting?

Edit: I'm sorry, that sounded more curt than I meant it to. I meant to ask if you could share some of the better resources you know of so we can add to the knowledge base and help correct the idea that the best Dag fighters throw nothing but high crosses and shoulder pops, which seems to be the norm in what I've seen from that DVD.

Unfortunately, no. I'm unwilling to post any of the fighting resources I'm aware of after having been warned so many times for mentioning things I'm not supposed to on these boards. All I can say is: There is very nearly nothing worthy of praise or emulation in that trailer. Begin from the basics: footwork (how to move in, how to move out, lateral movement), power generation (look it up, use your hips), and work with a good sword and board fighter to find openings and decide what works for you.

Quote from: Brother Ranos Rask on February 06, 2011, 09:06:59 pm

Stick is 1'6, plus the 5 in. chain, plus a 4 in. round ball.
So all together 2'3", sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ah, a 27" total-length flail. That's part of your problem. You're playing in grind-range with a weapon that can never stab and which is worse in close quarters than a sword. Get a ~35" flail and start trying to keep your opponents just inside your range without letting them close to their preferred range.

Aric Coren Drasilvas the exile · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:16:42 pm »

I have always found an aggressive approach while using a good light-weight shield seems to do well, go nuts, keep it moving and change directions with the weapon plenty.

Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:22:06 pm »

and everyone knows I hate it when I have to say this.

What Arrakis said.

Brother Ranos Rask · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:14:45 pm »

Arrakis, Thanks for the advice. How do you fight? If there is nothing worth while in the video, then maybe you could hit me up on the Tome and send me the stuff you can't here. Adrian Ranos Salcedo.

Aric, I do that exact thing. Light shield and lots of running.

Thanks again,
Ranos

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Author Topic: Shots used while using a flail. (Read 988 times)