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[Whisper Moonson]

I hadn't heard about the barbed-wire encounter(s). That sounds like a Very Bad Thing. It's strongly tempting to jump all over that, but I'll try to withold judgment until I hear the whole story from as many POVs as possible.

Regarding somone walking off the field, putting on a yellow tabard, and throwing another person off the field for being garbless: Bravo! Regarding authority to do so: I recall there was some discussion in advance about doing that very thing, and the event organizers approved the idea. So, someone with the authority to do so took time out of their fighting to make sure the rules were enforced. Good.

[athelas]

Barbed wire must have been a Bad Thing.

[Sir Mirelle of Narnia]

Not gonna lie if we are gonna bring up drama from an event can we just bring it out in the open and say who, what, why, and when, not all this vague stuff. If your not willing to bring up all the details so people can hear the whole story, just let it go.

[Mikhail]

Not gonna lie if we are gonna bring up drama from an event can we just bring it out in the open and say who, what, why, and when, not all this vague stuff. If your not willing to bring up all the details so people can hear the whole story, just let it go.

Yeah, for those of us who weren't there, what exactly happened? 

[Fayne Erving]

Maybe not the who but definitely exactly what happened? I was there and I don't know the whole story.

[Kurai]

*puts up umbrella* this is going to get messy.

[Whisper Moonson]

From what I've now been told through private channels, someone who was deliberately out of garb was deliberately shield bashed. The barbed wire fence destination was accidental. The basher voluntarily sat out for awhile, apologies were offered and accepted on the site, and the case is pretty much closed.

[Richard.]

Why the hell was there barbed wire on the battlefield?

[Dragonwalker]

Fencing for a pasture, that kind of thing. The event was on farmland.

[Amadeaus Chisantrix]

YEAH RIGHT.......

[Squire Lizard]

Besides, since when does an im sorry allow you to stay on the field?. Lots of dumb things were done by my unit mates too even by the higher ups, and I will say the same thing now... Take accountability for what YOU do.
NOTHING EVER SUPERCEDES SAFETY.
Im done, peace dag boards

[Amadeaus Chisantrix]

At least paint the hockey mask so it looks like garb.

[hivemind]

Take accountability for what YOU do.

That seems to be the problem with garb - no one *does* take any accountability. So now, some people are making an effort to hold others responsible.

[Solusar]

Not gonna lie if we are gonna bring up drama from an event can we just bring it out in the open and say who, what, why, and when, not all this vague stuff. If your not willing to bring up all the details so people can hear the whole story, just let it go.

Because said person is a mod and can change what's said.

[Olos]

Not gonna lie if we are gonna bring up drama from an event can we just bring it out in the open and say who, what, why, and when, not all this vague stuff. If your not willing to bring up all the details so people can hear the whole story, just let it go.

Because said person is a mod and can change what's said.

Are you being serious with this? lol...

[Alric]

We don't do that, Solusar. And if we tried to, you'd have a bit 'edited by <moderator's name>' at the bottom of the post to show that we'd been there.

[Melkore]

As a person who was there and had to deal with this allow me to shed some light on this.( please note, Im very sorry for what I am about to do.) AND thank everyone for the patience and understanding.

Stellria, was the "Garb Hearld" who was fighting on the field. In the middle of a game she left the field, grabed a tunic, went back on the field and started yelling about people about their garb.( please refer to the beginning of this thread to understand the garb stff) And doning a hearlds tunic, in situations like this, it could have waited tell the battle was over to resolve this issue with the head hearld on the field and maybe his unit commander.

One of my fighters, the guy with the hockey mask, was "out of garb" because of his blue jeans.  The Head Hearld didnt mind the hocky mask, but did bring out the border line issues with it.
Stellaria, then told Yari, to "put him out of the game, anyway you see fit." Yari then nocked him into the barbed fence twice, then grabed the mask and threw it over the fence.

Now Yari, was more then happy to apolgize, he even did and removed himself from fighting for a while, however, Stellaria didnt want to apolgize and when she did, it was piss pour at best. We even talked to her about this stating,"if you wanna check everyone garbs, grab your tunic and lets do this now."  To which she responed, "no, im gonna go fight."

This could have been handeled MANY MANY other ways that could have avoided all this nonsince. But the attitude and position on this makes many wonder, what the hell.?!?  Everyone needs to be garbed yes. A hockey mask isnt garb, but is borderline saftey equipment.   We are adults this SHOULD have been handeled better.  The level of improtance is SAFTEY, PLAYABILITY, REALISIM. By this, Garb is the last thing, and safety is first. But voilence as a answer?!? No, it is never a answer.
Its a little frustating that the main issue this was over, was even dealing with his blue jeans...

[Melkore]

also happy to see someone is deleating the posts too.....

[Hanzo of Narnia]

I think another side of this needs to be heard before everyone starts saying we should all wear blue jeans, also and just my opinion I think you have the whole story narrated as though the Stell and Jari are some sort of evil Illuminati, yet again I wasnt there but your story definitely is not subjective...

Also this is a combat sport we recreate violence, you may be misinterpreting a bad hit for a malicious one.

[Mikhail]

I think another side of this needs to be heard before everyone starts saying we should all wear blue jeans, also and just my opinion I think you have the whole story narrated as though the Stell and Jari are some sort of evil Illuminati, yet again I wasnt there but your story definitely is not subjective...

Also this is a combat sport we recreate violence, you may be misinterpreting a bad hit for a malicious one.

Yes, we have a couple dramatically different sides of the story being represented, and I think we're all still pretty hazy about the picture as a whole.  Stell, Jari, can you offer some insight here?

And don't worry, Hanzo, I don't think anybody could interpret this story as being a reason for everybody to wear blue jeans.

[Hanzo of Narnia]

I think another side of this needs to be heard before everyone starts saying we should all wear blue jeans, also and just my opinion I think you have the whole story narrated as though the Stell and Jari are some sort of evil Illuminati, yet again I wasnt there but your story definitely is not subjective...

Also this is a combat sport we recreate violence, you may be misinterpreting a bad hit for a malicious one.

Yes, we have a couple dramatically different sides of the story being represented, and I think we're all still pretty hazy about the picture as a whole.  Stell, Jari, can you offer some insight here?

And don't worry, Hanzo, I don't think anybody could interpret this story as being a reason for everybody to wear blue jeans.

one thing I've learned from thsi game, people will take anything related or unrelated to justify lack of trying...I'd bet my house this comes up again somewhere as a defense for failing garb.

But thats not the subject at hand.

[Squire Lizard]

My post was deleted... not changed but removed.

So I will repeat myself, this will get deleted too I am sure...
A shield bash?? Legal, even if rough and malicious and can get someone hurt. A second one will usually get you removed for a bit.
Now add in terrain, the fence. A shield bash into the fence once? I would call bad on both fighters for getting too damn close to the fence, they are retards. Yes I am a dick, get over it. Be careful, if you have a problem, take it out on the field AWAY from the barbed wire fence.
Now a second bash into the fence following the first one?... I dont know how to call that. But it isnt nice. How do you call it? 
I am looking at this from a heralds point of view. Ignoring anyone involved, affiliates, units, all of that crap because I am a herald, I don't care. I have no friends... How does this get handled?

Also, Why are my posts getting removed? I called no one out, I brought up a valid safety point. I could care less about garb, who is involved, or peoples opinion on why this would justify anything? Dude was a spud, plain and simple. It should not have happened, my bad. We cool?
I know the rules, and check my posts carefully. Did I do wrong?

[Melkore]

Yes, i do apolgize for it, I do have a subjective stance only because I got to handel it personally at the event.( Nothing like wasting a day at a event on B.S....and many hours since then..)

[Judge Dredd]

Lizzard, your post is still up and was not deleted, it is on page 2, we are on page 3 now.

[Alric]

I checked the moderation logs (which record everything we do as moderators and which cannot be edited by any of us - there's no edit option short of rewriting the databases, and I don't know enough mysql to do that without crashing the whole website), and no posts have been deleted.

[Lykos MacGregor]

Hey.. How about that Turtles thread?  Wacky, huh?

[Judge Dredd]

Stellaria, then told Yari, to "put him out of the game, anyway you see fit."

Not buying this part.

[Melkore]

I know Blackhawk. I didnt either tell i heard it for myself. I can give you people to talk to if it helps?

[Solusar]

We don't do that, Solusar. And if we tried to, you'd have a bit 'edited by <moderator's name>' at the bottom of the post to show that we'd been there.

Yeah, people do. It does say a post has been modified, but that also means posts were modified. Reference my thread about the Dagorhir map, Lykos changed what I said in that post to make himself look less bad.

I'd like to hear the accused parties version as well.

[Alric]

Yeah, people do. It does say a post has been modified, but that also means posts were modified. Reference my thread about the Dagorhir map, Lykos changed what I said in that post to make himself look less bad.

I was't aware of that.

[Lykos MacGregor]

Hell, I wasn't aware of it... why?  Because it happened over 2 years ago and he picks now to complain about it.  Nice.  I have no idea what he said that made me look "bad", but it is a post about maps.  If he was making personal attacks, then I can see how i might have edited it so that the whole post did not have to be deleted.

Whatever...  Solusar is not my problem anymore, you guys get to deal with him.

[Solusar]

Because it happened over 2 years ago and he picks now to complain about it. 

I was banned right after making my map.

Served!


No, but really, let's get back to talking about garb we should be wearing instead of going out and fighting each other in our medieval combat sport.

[Judge Dredd]

Look... squirrel!!!

[Rainen]

Look... squirrel!!!

We don't like it when you point.

[Milo Baines]

[Arrakis]

One of my fighters, the guy with the hockey mask, was "out of garb" because of his blue jeans.

LOL why the quotation marks, homeslice?  You mad cause wearing bluejeans is explicitly illegal according to the MoA and no one on the field should have taken that buffoon's hits or paid him any mind all day?  Control your fighters, pimp.

Sounds like Stell took care of bizzniss to me.

So many image responses I wanna post but I like not being b&.

[Fayne Erving]

A Bampersand?

[xerazel the blue]

ok, I just finished reading this whole thread and I too have strong opinions. However, I will not bore you with them for fear of being scolded by my realms leader. I instead wish to point out this whole situation could have been easily avoided by FOLLOWING THE RULES OF THE GAME. there is a reason we have a hierarchy, USE IT. If you have a problem with a player on the field you take it up with a herald. you do not take it upon yourself to "correct" that player.   *DERP*

What I would like to hear are ways we can avoid this B.S. in the future. I do realize how cliche i sound, but c'mon.
 

[Dragonwalker]

Wear minimum garb, for starters.

After that, try battlefield awareness. I don't think half the people on the field remembered the trebuchet, let alone the fence. Considering people had to be shooed away from the siege weapon HOW many times, I'm thinking it was bad battlefield awareness on everyone's part.

And then, after that, PUSH BACK when getting shield bashed. Or something. Jump out of the way, leg 'em and leave 'em in the mud, SOMETHING other than getting pushed into a fence. Or off the edge of the field. Or whatever (depending on the field and scenario).

That'd be the best plan for anyone to try and remedy a situation like this.

Edit: This isn't aimed at any one person, this is just what I personally think could be done to answer the "What are ways we can avoid this B.S. in the future" question.

[hivemind]

Was blue jeans and hockey mask spud injured, even slightly?

[DaSeamstress]

As a herold, you should not ever throw,force, or ban anyone from the field because of gard, you tell them their garb does not pass and they must change and return for approvl. The only reasons to ever throw someone off the field is inappropriate behavor, not following combat rules, or distructive behavor. Also, if you are fighting and have a problem with garb or any situation on the field, it is disrespectful to the head herold and other herolds to decide they are not doing it right and go get ur tunic and play herold for 20mins. The situation should have been handed to the head herold. You wanna help herold and take a break from fighting, ok, good, you will never be turned down. But it sounds like it went to personal issues instead.

Now if u excuse me, I am going to chase that squirrel.

[Rainen]

I'm wondering if you made that account JUST for this post... Also, I can run fast. And up trees.

Was blue jeans and hockey mask spud injured, even slightly?

*Grabs medkit* Here if anyone needs me.

[Sir Mirelle of Narnia]

Just to clear some stuff up because it seems the people who ran the event are not here to post it.

"Stell was asked by an event organizer for Gates of Summer if she would help as Garb Herald, a request which was approved by Nox, the event's head herald."

[hivemind]

Wow, they're all coming out of the woodwork for this one.

1. Herald.

2. This:

As a herold, you should not ever throw,force, or ban anyone from the field because of gard, you tell them their garb does not pass and they must change and return for approvl. The only reasons to ever throw someone off the field is inappropriate behavor, not following combat rules, or distructive behavor.

is 100% your opinion. Personally, I'm fine with heralds telling people to GTFO and get their garb. That's all anyone was asking, no one was banned from the field for not having garb, and that's definitely not the point of the new push for rules enforcement regarding garb this year.

3. Any herald is empowered at any time to make a call regarding the rules. That's what the yellow tabard means. At no time do you need to go bring it to committee. You make the call as you see it, whether it be a safety call, a combat ruling, or a garb issue.

4. You don't get to say you're happy when people help herald, please help, come one, come all - then complain that they're not doing it right.

5. I got five bucks on the squirrel...

[djemps]

This thread was started concerning acceptable garb, but instead it seems like it has turned into a discussion about whether people have a basic understanding of how the herald system works. I hardly ever get to play this game, but even I know that if a herald asks you to do ANYTHING on the field, you do it immediately and then take it up with the head herald AFTER the battle, not the other way around.

[DaSeamstress]

I had to start a new account because my old one was corrupted/deactivated/whatever.

GTFO and grab garb yes is the same thing and most times is what I have had to use but is not what people are saying that happened, he was kicked off, that is a issue for me if I understand how it was handled. (Which yes, i am waiting and wanting to hear the other side as well) All I care about is if someone got banned for Garb to be honest.

And if any herold puts on a tunic just to use the power to handle a personal problem then yea I thinks that's just abuse of power, but again those were two general points that I wanted to make clear because I have been hearing a lot of stories like that recently. I would like to hear it was nothing like that, all misunderstandin that will now help to keep in mind for future to make Garb eenforcement stronger.

And why does my squirrel taste like cat....o...I think I got the wrong furry thing

[Alric]

Not wearing garb is like rhinohiding. Neither is a safety problem, but both break the gameplay. People who take the field without garb deliberately* are choosing to ignore some of the rules, just as people who decide to sluff a shot choose to ignore a portion of the rules. Garb isn't a realism thing - realism is about how realistic your garb is. Garb is playability, because you can't play the game without wearing the silly clothes. Just like you can't play the game without taking your shots.

A good herald will make a bad rhinohider sit out for a while to cool down. A good herald will make someone without garb go and change their clothes (especially if that person is a veteran who knows how things work).

Sometimes people get angry at rhinohiders and hit them harder than they should, or shield bash them unsafely. It looks like we have a case here of someone getting angry at a garb cheater and doing the same thing. And it doesn't sound like it was a good situation (though we haven't yet heard from anyone directly involved in the incident, so there's still a lot of hearsay going on). You shouldn't take it into your own hands to punish rhinohiders and garb offenders.

But we also shouldn't make martyrs out of cheaters who didn't listen to heralds and follow the rules, just because someone got pissed at them for cheating.

- - -
* Sometimes people break the garb rules carelessly. Sometimes people don't notice a shot that they should have taken. Honorable fighters put on garb when someone points out their mistake, honorable fighters take death and try to pay better attention next time.

[DaSeamstress]

Alric and djemps u make very good points and saw them after I posted.

I may not agree with the conclusion of this situation or how it was handled but will say apsolutely.

It is not garb because the herold says so.  (Might not be the exact wording of the thread but I thought it would work)

[Dragonwalker]

Couple things to help you out with the figuring:

Stell was given permission to do the Garb Herald bit. She wasn't just tossing on a yellow tabbard for the kicks.

As far as I know or have heard, no one was banned from the field or the fighting. Just told to go get garb. Some did, some didn't. Some had the "tent flooded" excuse, some didn't. Personally, there were a crap ton of cars there to help dry people out, and fighting would have helped dry things out as well. Not to mention....IT WAS A RAIN AND MUD EVENT! Even if you avoided the river, the field was wet! Who cares! You'll be drier if you wore the garb, than if you tromped around in your street clothes!

Finally, if you're eating a squirrel, and it tastes like cat.....the squirrel probably ate your cat.

[Whisper Moonson]

If someone is not in garb, they are not supposed to be on the field. If they are on the field, they are in violation of the rules. They are cheating. Heralds have the power and authority to remove cheaters from the field. From what I hear from other attendees, Stell actually waited until between scenarios to tell ungarbed fighters to go get dressed. Nobody was banned from the field. Additionally, her unfortunate request regarding those who refused to get dressed was "Truck 'em," not "Take 'em out of the game."

What I'm seeing here is a totally preventable situation that got out of hand, then was corrected and settled at the event, and now people who were not directly involved in the incident want to stir up crap about it. I don't see any of this being very productive.

As far as I'm concerned, there are two morals to the story:

1. Wear your freakin' garb! Don't make the heralds tell you to go get dressed. Just get dressed like the adult you allegedly are.

2. No matter how satisfying it may be, don't punish the wicked by assigning them "special friend" status. It puts you halfway into wickedness yourself, and the least mistake will put you all the way there.

But we also shouldn't make martyrs out of cheaters who didn't listen to heralds and follow the rules, just because someone got pissed at them for cheating.

Alric is wise. Him talks more good than me tonight.