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[Ilsa Starling]

I recently moved to Florida, and that means experiencing heat like I've never fought in before. Most of my garb is pseudo-Viking/Saxon, which means long sleeves, linen and wool, and voluminous skirts. It was all made when I was living in the north, so I paid a lot more attention to dressing for the cold than for the heat.

With Rag coming up, I thought this might be a worthwhile topic to broach on a national level as well. What are some things we can do to make summer garb more comfortable? What options do we have that might not normally occur to people?

I see two facets to answering this: the simple material factors that make standard garb designs more comfortable (like picking thin, breathable fabrics, using light colors, and patterning your tunics to float around your body rather than cling), and delving into contemporary cultures that did experience real heat (looking at Indian, north African, or Middle Eastern patterns rather than trying to make northern European stuff work for heat it never imagined).

I know there are lots of things I haven't considered so far, and I'd love to see more ideas. What do y'all think?

[Thask]

just startin to get hot again =) gonna be fun when its 100 degrees with 90% humidity lol

[Sarus]

If we're looking at other cultures for inspiration, the Pacific Rim is has a plethora of ideas. The various Southeast Asian cultures, southern Chinese, and Japan in particular all experience hot, humid temperatures and have a handful of simple, effective garment styles to account for it.

[Ilsa Starling]

Dang, I hadn't thought of Pacific Rim at all. I know that a bunch of folks are putting together Japanese garb for a collective 'Samurai Summer'-- I'm suddenly more curious about that endeavor!

[Korac]

I would obviously suggest thin white linen.   You can look up ancient egyptian women if you are feeling brave.

[Solusar]

I recommend sleeveless surcoats.

[Arrakis]

A hat with a brim.  You can make 'em as historical as you like.  My sport hat isn't documentable, but it's close enough to a lot of medieval stuff to work.

Drink water.

[Frothgar]

I've had success with simple wrap kilts and light sleeveless tunics. my kilts are a cotton blend, and my tunics are 100% poly, I think. people say that poly not a good material for the heat but i haven't had much of a  problem. that being said i am a pasty white guy, so the benefits of my light summer garb are often outweighed by the amount of sunburn i have to deal with.

ultimately i think there is only going to be so much your garb can do for you and youll have to look to other solutions for staying cool.
drink water, take breaks as you need them, learn to recognize(and treat) heat related illness symptoms in yourself and others.

as far as culture goes,
I modeled my summer tunics off of a greek garment called a chiton. its a very simple project that might work well for you. its bgasically 2 rectangles sewn, pinned, or tied together.give it a shot, wont damage your wallet much.

Frothgar

[Ilyas ibn Yahya]

There isn't going to be a hard and fast answer to summer garbing.

The long sleeves; linen and wool effect won't work as well in the humidity of the southeast as it would in the dry heat of the southwest. Not to say that linen is a bad thing in the south.

[Kensman Ilariia]

The long sleeves; linen and wool effect won't work as well in the humidity of the southeast as it would in the dry heat of the southwest. Not to say that linen is a bad thing in the south.

This is true, but I still prefer it to sunburn/heat stroke, and it mostly just requires drinking a bit more water.

Look up some of your local Trimarians & neighboring Meridians, Ilsa, both Kingdoms are rife with Vikings for some reason.

[Whisper Moonson]

I've not had a chance to experiment with the linen and light wool combination in summer heat, though I plan to try it this summer.

In summers past (in regions both hot and humid), I've tried various methods of staying cool. One thing I've noticed is that there's very little perceived heat difference between wearing lightweight cotton and going with bare skin, and even less difference between light linen and bare skin. Cotton does stick to the skin a bit, but not terribly. Linen is less sticky when wet, and both cotton and linen wick sweat away and help it evaporate faster. The fabric also protects you from sunburn. A well-fitted long sleeved tunic of lightweight linen is a marvelous thing for summer wear.

[Antonis]

It's a subconscious rebellion against the heat, they think if they dress for Baltic winters, they will come.

Wool/Linen works well in our 90ish and humid summers.

[Outhro Youkker]

I recommend loin cloth and mud. that is how the locals did it back in the day

[Teej]

6th foam-combat season for me down here, never experienced summer elsewhere. I do have fond memories of going to a TN event on what was a freakishly hot day for them and watching everyone throw their armor off and roll up sleeves etc... just 5 minutes prior to that, I commented on how nice the weather was to my buddy. On the flipside... anything below 60 and I'm a baby. Northern groups slump in the winter, in FL we slump in the summer. We lose people who'd rather be in the A/C playing xbox.

Anyway besides garbing for summer... I also recommend:

Moving practices earlier/later if you normally practice around noon.

As Arrakis said, drink water... and break for it more often; I also recommend stuff covered with salt if you're gonna be fighting for a day or two.

Most of us nerds light up like vampires in the sun, so obviously sunscreen which should go without saying. That spray-on stuff is amazing…

I've never been big on sleeved natural fabric, I've done it, it's not my cup of tea. I imagine the humidity makes the fabric much less breathable.

I AM glad I have a kilt.

On an unrelated note… the mosquitoes will welcome you to FL soon too. It won't be all that bad...

[Teej]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJPa8dGBxfM

[Jolin Ironblade]

I my self am dealing with the heat and I am going with a cross between Greek/roman/Egyptian to form a fantasy style. i made a battle skirt with an Egyptian skirt under it with a sleeveless medieval shirt. i kinda modeled it after the new clash of titans. still working on it even made my own sandals.     

[Korac]

Just linen during the day is pretty comfortable at ragnarok in my experience.

I might make a shirt this week.  It will be primitive.

[warwell]

Some ideas:

At one point, Teej was planning to do a Greek persona. I imagine that a chiton would work well in FL. Roman garb should also work.

When I used to participate in Drake's Raid (held in St Augustine in June), I did a sailor's impression - long-sleeved, lightweight, cotton shirt, a pair of linen slops (to the knees), and sandals. It kept me relatively cool, but the sleeves protected my arms from the sun.

I recently picked up a couple of linen tunics. I may wear one at Oceanside Onslaught over a pair of shorts and go bare-legged. Either that or I'll dress as a pirate 

YIS,
Rufus of Dragon Coast

P.S. And as Arrakis suggested, wear a hat.

[Goats Kordatar]

The long sleeves; linen and wool effect won't work as well in the humidity of the southeast as it would in the dry heat of the southwest. Not to say that linen is a bad thing in the south.

This is true, but I still prefer it to sunburn/heat stroke, and it mostly just requires drinking a bit more water.

Not applicable to historical personas, but most skin paints if I recall correctly can act as a minor sunscreen. Go Grey!

[Spiderling]

The long sleeves; linen and wool effect won't work as well in the humidity of the southeast as it would in the dry heat of the southwest. Not to say that linen is a bad thing in the south.

This is true, but I still prefer it to sunburn/heat stroke, and it mostly just requires drinking a bit more water.

Not applicable to historical personas, but most skin paints if I recall correctly can act as a minor sunscreen. Go Grey!

That'll help some against sunburn, but not at all against the main issue at hand (overheating).  Direct summer sun on bare (or even painted) skin can be brutal; the time I got heat exhaustion from practice I was shirtless, and painting up wouldn't have helped.  My long-sleeve linen tunic might have.

[Korac]

linen feels better then cotton while wet.  It also dries faster.

[Teej]

At one point, Teej was planning to do a Greek persona. I imagine that a chiton would work well in FL. Roman garb should also work.

Yeah, quasi-greek though:) we had pants and a waist wrap that suggested otherwise. But they were wrap pants and open on the sides, the chiton was open... it breathed good. Put the unit on hold though, burried in college and small business.

Here's the pants: http://craftytutorials.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-make-and-wear-wrap-pants.html Picnic found them.

[Orrin None-son]

The long sleeves; linen and wool effect won't work as well in the humidity of the southeast as it would in the dry heat of the southwest. Not to say that linen is a bad thing in the south.

This is true, but I still prefer it to sunburn/heat stroke, and it mostly just requires drinking a bit more water.

Not applicable to historical personas, but most skin paints if I recall correctly can act as a minor sunscreen. Go Grey!

Boy learns quick. I like this kid. lol


I seem to remember a thread about summer garb one time. Was a lot of pics in there and ideas.... let me find that link....

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=13064.0

[Skeith, the Forsaken]

linen feels better then cotton while wet.  It also dries faster.

I like linen in the summer for this exact reason.

[Grey Wolfcaller, Grand High Homo of Dagorhir]

A note for the extremely pale skinned though, any summer weight linens or cottons you buy at the fabric store will not have the same UV protection as a store-bought t-shirt of the same weight. So, either layer your garb or make sure to sun screen anywhere you only have a single layer.

[Kevät]

I beg to differ. I am as pale as they come (I can't even find makeup light enough for my skin tone), and I have NEVER gotten a sunburn THROUGH my linen. I have however, burned on areas of my skin that WEREN'T covered by my garb. I live in linen all summer, garb and otherwise, and rarely wear more than one layer in the peak of summer.  I have used linen that I buy at my local fabric store and higher quality linen that I've found online.  Not only is this an incorrect statement, but linen will keep you significantly cooler than any cotton or polyester knit t-shirt of any weight. 


P.S. T-shirts don't have ANY UV protection, unless you buy shirts specifically designed to have that feature.  And those still won't breathe as well or protect your skin as well as covering your body in a layer of linen. 

[Grey Wolfcaller, Grand High Homo of Dagorhir]

Where I have had the opposite observation, having seen people burn significantly through linen and other summer weight materials, hence my post. Despite appearances, I do not burn easily and have even tanned through linen . . . and burned everywhere that wasn't covered after a full day of fighting un-screened. Now, this may be in part due to the fact that linen weight will vary widely based on manufacturer, and you may have access to higher quality than I or others I know have been able to obtain/afford.

Regardless, the reality is, unless you're wearing something fairly thick, if you are light-skinned you should be using sun screen on all exposed and lightly covered skin. Given the field conditions at Rag even people with darker skin tones should use sun screen on exposed skin. Ultimately that's my point . . . don't depend solely on your garb to protect you from a nasty burn.

[athelas]

I am as pale as they come

She really is the most pale person ever. And being the bomb of a seamstress that she is... knows her fabric. I shall go buy me some linen now.

(from the second most pale person ever)

[Goats Kordatar]

Boy learns quick. I like this kid. lol

Funny, I thought I was on your list of people to kill...

[Orrin None-son]

Boy learns quick. I like this kid. lol

Funny, I thought I was on your list of people to kill...

who said ya wasn't?

[Goats Kordatar]

Oooooh! You meant the "kill for fun" list!

[Orrin None-son]

Oooooh! You meant the "kill for fun" list!

nope.

[Chase]

Hey another Floridian!

Where are you located? I live on the Space Coast; we have a lot of fighting groups around here; I haven't seen the Dagorhir group in forever, but I know they're still active near Orlando.

I've found that lining any garb you make with a synthetic fiber rather than something like cotton; even though a material like polyester doesn't breathe as well as something like cotton, it dries much more quickly, which is good if you're in high humidity or tend to sweat a lot.
I like poly/cotton blends like those you find in cheap bed sheets.

[Ilsa Starling]

Hey there! We (okay, husband and I) are up in Gainesville, though we've been to a few of the Gemini Springs battles outside of DeBary/Deltona. I don't know many fighters' names yet, down here, but if you're going to Oceanside Onslaught in May, I'd be delighted to make your acquaintance!

Really interesting point about the synthetics and the absorbency of cotton-- I've honestly never considered that. I'm curious now about how other synthetic/natural fiber blends behave in humidity. Hm...

[Thask]

Usually once a month Florida meets up for a battle check out http://floridafoamfighters.com/ for groups info and battle schedules.
This months battle is Oceanside Onslaught over in your area: http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=21110.msg443239#msg443239

[Alric]

I've found that lining any garb you make with a synthetic fiber rather than something like cotton; even though a material like polyester doesn't breathe as well as something like cotton, it dries much more quickly, which is good if you're in high humidity or tend to sweat a lot.
I like poly/cotton blends like those you find in cheap bed sheets.

This is why I love wool so much - it soaks the sweat off of a body and evaporates it quickly, and breathes better than polyester if you've got a good weave. Light weight tropical wools are awesome.

[Orrin None-son]

The long sleeves; linen and wool effect won't work as well in the humidity of the southeast as it would in the dry heat of the southwest. Not to say that linen is a bad thing in the south.

This is true, but I still prefer it to sunburn/heat stroke, and it mostly just requires drinking a bit more water.

Not applicable to historical personas, but most skin paints if I recall correctly can act as a minor sunscreen. Go Grey!

Boy learns quick. I like this kid. lol


I seem to remember a thread about summer garb one time. Was a lot of pics in there and ideas.... let me find that link....

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=13064.0

Nothing, no comments at all? disappointing.

[Chase]

Thank you thask!
ಠ_ಠ
 I live less than 20 miles away. There's no reason for me NOT to go!

Nothing, no comments at all? disappointing.

Hahaha, I love that thread.

[Matties]

Fight in the shade.... Ya down here in Fl the heat will take it out of you faster then you think, Make sure you drink a lot of water , go easy on the gateraid. If you dont have to P you need to drink more.

Like every one says light airy garb and try to fight in the morning when its cooler.

[Goats Kordatar]

Oooooh! You meant the "kill for fun" list!

nope.

[Briar Rose]

Linen and flowy. I've found linen to be better in heat, even with long sleeves (keeps the sun off) than pretty much anything else and it layers well when it gets cooler. Take a scrap of linen to wrap around your head to make a a headdress that will keep the sun off your neck, too, if you tie it right.

I am also a fan of the large-brimmed hat. I need to get Eep a new hat. Especially if you have dark hair that just soaks up the sun, a hat will keep you cooler.

I still use sunblock, even when I'm wearing long skirts and sleeves.

[Richard.]

I made some medium weight loose weave wool hosen thinking they'd be nice and warm for gates but I was quickly chilled in even the slightest of breezes. I was not warm at all. They're gonna be great for summer.

[Scheiny the Space Oracle]

At one point, Teej was planning to do a Greek persona. I imagine that a chiton would work well in FL. Roman garb should also work.

Yeah, quasi-greek though:) we had pants and a waist wrap that suggested otherwise. But they were wrap pants and open on the sides, the chiton was open... it breathed good. Put the unit on hold though, burried in college and small business.

Here's the pants: http://craftytutorials.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-make-and-wear-wrap-pants.html Picnic found them.

for any of the girls who try to wear shorts or miniskirts as garb because you want to look Teh Sexy, if you sew those legs together at the ankle and throw elastic into the hem you'd have the quintessential idea of fantasy harem-girl pants in a Dag-acceptable, probably cooler, and in my opinion MUCH sexier garment.

I am as pale as they come

She really is the most pale person ever. And being the bomb of a seamstress that she is... knows her fabric. I shall go buy me some linen now.

(from the second most pale person ever)

i love the different colors of us in this photo Zulu got of Nyx, Fyxe and me at Badon 2010.  Kevat, we need pictures together anyway, but we definitely need one for comparison purposes!



this is my coloring after a summer of sun!  but being friends with some cosmeticians and make up artists, i've been color matched a lot, and i at least match up with the very lightest foundations.  i definitely want a picture to compare us. 

[Sir Robert Valcore of the Teutonic Knights]

LOL to answer this, I will quote myself from another thread:
oh dear, the survival instructor side of me has to pop out for a second: the color of your fabrics are actually a big part of it. for instance, while you may feel hotter in the short term  in dark colors, the dark colors also block the UV which is what really messes you up .  The desert and semi erid plains dwellers generally wear layers of light and dark, natural fabrics to keep themselves safe from the sun.
 I second the layering of linnen and wool. When  I go into the field for any of my outdoor excursions, I have a rather nice, extra lightweight Filson wool shirt that, combined with a moisture whicking base layer, keeps my comfort level at a good keel. Im actually much more comfortable than the guy in just a T-shirt as he is being hit with a lot more UV rays and the sun just burns him right through the cotton t-shirt. In fact, the guys running around shirtless on the battlefield are twice as likely to get heat stroke as well as a nasty sunburn. The layering allows for your bodys natural cooling mechanism, sweat, to work, as it allows it to slowly evaporate. The evaporation is what makes you cool. the guy with no shirt will feel cooler at first because of the rapid evaporation, however, he will dehydrate faster and he will be hotter because his body wont be able to keep up with the amount of heat vs sweat evaporation and he will overheat.
I guess what Im saying is that there are some very real advantages to a linnen undertunic and a light wool overtunic, say in 1/2 sleeve or 3/4 sleeves. when you belt your garb, be sure its baggy and lets plenty of air space, and most importantly drink LOTS AND LOTS of water. you will be fine, and in the process you will look better too!

[Chase]

Good statement about wearing darker colors for UV protection, valcore! Of course, if the fabric's weave is very loose, the color's not going to be as significant - but you addressed that.


Here's a very informative page about sun protection: http://sun1.awardspace.com/Sun_Protection/fabrics.htm

[Ashalind Silverscale]

I like the look on the guy's face in the background of that pic.

[Scheiny the Space Oracle]

I like the look on the guy's face in the background of that pic.

yep, we addressed that on Tome of Faces.  he claims he was looking at something else entirely.  my vanity and i prefer to think otherwise.

[Solusar]

I recommend sleeveless surcoats.

I think this guy is on to something.....