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[boagrius]

Stupid question maybe. I was watching Deadliest Warrior and in the Celt vs Persian episode the celts had a 2 pound club with metal around it. As a lot of swords that were used one handed wouldn't this be about the same as a speed bat?

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

no, the reason the club was deadly had more to do with its mass then anything else, a speed bad  is a mass weapon lacking mass, and therefore the ability to be deadly.

[boagrius]

I guess but isn't 2 pounds pretty light still? I mean in comparison even if it's a 16oz bat making it half the weight that's about the same as the swords that I've used seeing how most swords are right around the 2-5 pound range.

[Alric]

Real swords fall somewhere in the 2-3lb range, depending on the style and period.

[Jack Stewart III]

Don't forget swords have this thing called an edge that allows them to cut through things like flesh...and bone...
A 2Lb club would still be lethal yes, but I get the feeling that you'd either a) have to hit very specific spots, or b) repeatedly club your opponent, to recieve the same effect. Still a valid weapon though.

I'd akin a speed bat to a 3', 1-1/4" diameter ash pole. Very fast, but minimal lethality comparitively speaking.

[Sir Magnus of Narnia]

Don't forget this post was started by a guy who posted this for his first post and has a name......Boag--us

[Alric]

Remember that a baseball bat only weighs about 2lbs, and can do a lot of damage to a body. You get a much more efficient killing power from a 2lb sword than a 2lb bat, but they're both pretty nasty to get slugged by.

[Alagos of Ivormere]

And the simple fact that Deadliest Warrior is a guilty pleasure that's worth almost zilch when it comes to realism. Entertaining to watch, but I wouldn't take anything they say on there seriously.

[Milo Baines]

How much do clubs generally weigh? Or more specifically, how much would ya'll want a round club to weigh so you'd feel it'd do significant damage?

[Maker Magpie]

How much do clubs generally weigh? Or more specifically, how much would ya'll want a round club to weigh so you'd feel it'd do significant damage?

The generally accepted weight for clubs is X+1 lbs, where X is whatever your club weighs.

[Milo Baines]

How much do clubs generally weigh? Or more specifically, how much would ya'll want a round club to weigh so you'd feel it'd do significant damage?

The generally accepted weight for clubs is X+1 lbs, where X is whatever your club weighs.

By that logic a 1 lb 12 oz club is the perfect weight...

[peanutbutter]

With clubs weight makes it more deadly but a club isn't determined by weight but by shape.

[Milo Baines]

Let me try this again...How much would you want a beatstick to weigh so you'd imagine it being an effective mass/blunt force trauma weapon? I'm seriously asking...

[mac]

most nightsticks or batons that police use are less than 2 lbs and a 8 inch slap jack can weigh as little as 7 oz all of them are lethal so how not spouting nonsense about how unleathal a club is unless it weighs 5 lbs. Is it as lethal as a sword, no but it will do the job just the same.

[Absolom Alai]

Nightsticks, batons, and slap jacks, though being lethal, can't exactly dish out what the rules cover. Inability to use a limb from a hit of nightstick? Sssuuurrreee, you would have to have good placement of a shot, such as elbow, to really do that much damage in a single swing. Of the three examples listed there, they're all lethal under few select conditions: repeated hits to create limb loss (which Dag needs only one, so that's illogical) or a cracked skull (Which I believe the head is invulnerable).

As far as the subject at hand: Sure, it's effective under mentioned conditions. I just don't trust Deadliest Warrior. It's got half of the people I know believing that the Spetsnaz charge fields with Ballistic Pens.

[Father Ciaran]

Modern police nightsticks/batons/tonfas are a bad example. They are specifically deisgned to decrease the chance of a lethal blow.

[Absolom Alai]

Modern police nightsticks/batons/tonfas are a bad example. They are specifically deisgned to decrease the chance of a lethal blow.

I was quoting Mac >.>

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

I look at it this way, in order for a weapon to be considered lethal in this game, one must be able to hit me in the bicep while my arm is at my side twice, and have it be lethal! And I have a pretty big arm. It's why I think the staff should be taken off the books, and clubs should be friggen heavy.

Those idiots reading that oriental chart with all the pressure points in little red dots saying "this stick is lethal" should be burned alive after being forced to watch their pets being killed.

[Casimir Glassjaw]

I refuse to believe that a sword to the bicep twice is in any way immediately lethal like it is in this game.

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

Conan for proof!

[Whisper Moonson]

All of this begs the main question in my mind - why the hell is a Celt depicted as using a club? The vast majority of Celtic grave finds and arms mentioned in old poems include swords, shields, daggers, and spears, but not many clubs. Clubs were for playing hurley, which was dangerous enough.

I'm just kind of puzzled about that. Not too terribly puzzled. After all, this is Deadliest Warrior we're talking about...

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

I refuse to believe that a sword to the bicep twice is in any way immediately lethal like it is in this game.

If you can't envision a sword cutting off your arm with the first strike, and hacking halfway through your torso on the second, you need to get in your car and find a man to fight, cause damn, you must be fighting limp wrist-ed children.

[Malpan]

It is really difficult (and impractical, if you want your shot to have any ability to follow-up) to hack off the arm of a well-muscled man (my arm, different story ) with a single shot from a sword.

I have cut through enough limbs IRL to know that the bone is going to absorb most of the blow, and the tendons, muscles, skin, etc., on the other side will stay connected.

So, regardless, your arm is probably going to dangle there and get in the way of a good body shot.

[Whisper Moonson]

On the other hand, if a sword slices through major muscles and stops halfway through your humerus, you're probably going to fold like a bag of laundry. Maybe even like a bad poker hand.

Meanwhile, with good technique and a decent sword...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v4j3mvrDyQ

[Maker Magpie]

Not saying it's not possible, but I can clearly see from the slow motion shot that the deer was already cut most of the way through. His swing didn't go through more than the front half of the carcass. FWIW.

On the other hand, if a sword slices through major muscles and stops halfway through your humerus, you're probably going to fold like a bag of laundry. Maybe even like a bad poker hand.

Meanwhile, with good technique and a decent sword...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v4j3mvrDyQ

[Spiderling]

If the guys in the video had done any of that with a katana, though, they'd have not only sliced clean through the carcass, but obliterated the house behind it in one swing.

[Whisper Moonson]

Magpie - take another look. Yes, it appears that there's already a small cut on the rib side. The bisecting cut goes through most of the body, including the spine. Swords are dangerous things. There's a good reason they've been so long considered the right tool for the job when it comes to killing. More examples...

Novice cutter, cheap sword, and a pig:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PSkUGQAxrc&feature=related

Another unfortunate deer vs. a short sword:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAqlCZPGktE&playnext=1&list=PL0C6727A80AA354AE

Cutting clean through a body is a rare thing, but that's mostly because the soft and floppy parts on the far side of whatever bone you hit go all soft and floppy without the bone there, and that absorbs some of the force of the strike. But on the next strike - might as well not even be there. Note how casually the guy finished decapitating that deer.

Um, weren't we talking about shows that take warriors from cultures that would likely never meet, give them weapons that they normally woudn't use, and make authoritative statements based on bad assumptions? No, that's not right. It was something about speed bats.

Anybody got videos of animal carcasses being destroyed with wooden sticks? It's for science!

[Absolom Alai]

Um, weren't we talking about shows that take warriors from cultures that would likely never meet, give them weapons that they normally woudn't use, and make authoritative statements based on bad assumptions? No, that's not right. It was something about speed bats.

Anybody got videos of animal carcasses being destroyed with wooden sticks? It's for science!

I suppose. I don't exactly have a video, but I have a link to an article about a boy beating a cat with a stick.

http://www.suffolknewsherald.com/2011/05/31/boy-charged-with-beating-kitten/

Sticks are speed bats too, right?

[Tycho Velius]

And the kitten survived.

[Isaac Aumont Olaf]

The difference between 12ozs and 2lbs is 20ozs.
You would need to nearly triple the weight of your average speed-bat/pixie-stick/whiffle-woofer in order for it to even qualify as a weapon.

Also, you're using Deadliest Warrior as your reference. That's your first mistake.

[Milo Baines]

Let me try this again...How much would you want a beatstick to weigh so you'd imagine it being an effective mass/blunt force trauma weapon? I'm seriously asking...

[Varadin]

Let me try this again...How much would you want a beatstick to weigh so you'd imagine it being an effective mass/blunt force trauma weapon? I'm seriously asking...

Thats easy milo

12 ounces. ITS THE RULE. Deal with it people. If you don't like the fact i can make a 12 ounce mace you too can purpose a rule change. And watch as 70% of dagorhir tells you they like it how it is.

[Milo Baines]

*fistbump* for Varadin...

[Isaac Aumont Olaf]

If you don't like the fact i can make a 12 ounce mace you too can purpose a rule change. And watch as 70% of dagorhir tells you they like it how it is.

You mean, '' half of Dagorim will admit to being Tiny BABY MAN?"
AH Ha ha ha ha- *snort* -ha heh he.

[Kensmen Tumbark the Barbarian]

But but... if I wield a heavy red weapon that is shaped after a Tetsubo quickly... then does that make it a speed bat?

[Arrakis]

But but... if I wield a heavy red weapon that is shaped after a Tetsubo quickly... then does that make it a speed bat?

Tumbark, I hate to break this to you....

but YOU are...

a speed bat!

[Kensmen Tumbark the Barbarian]

Aww dang it!