Topic: Using the haft of a spear....am I allowed to do this?? (Read 1410 times)

Redwycke · « **on:** January 23, 2012, 11:45:28 am »

Greetings to all, quick question i don't think is adequately covered in the MOA...the haft of a spear..obviously it can't do damage but am I allowed to push off with it or smack an opponent with "swinging motion" force (using courtesy foam not bare PVC) not to do "in game damage" but rather to set my opponent off balance or into a different location? That sort of thing??

Ravus · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2012, 11:50:14 am »

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php/topic,24142.0.html

swung? bad plan. you can parry, but any significant 'swing' is pretty iffy.

Barnabis The Great · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2012, 11:59:12 am »

4.1.9 - No swung weapon may have more than 1/3 of its overall length unpadded, nor have more than 30" unpadded.

4.4.4 - Spears must have at least 1/3 of the haft padded, but because spears are strictly thrusting weapons (as opposed to hacking weapons), the padding does not have to be as thick as on a hacking weapon.

for safety issues, swing a spear is illegal. as ravus stated, you can parry

Gaul · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2012, 12:15:08 pm »

I'll push any weapon, shield or body part, but if you make any contact with the shaft with significant speed, you're likely to hurt someone. I define pushing as first making contact, then applying force. No pain or bruises that way.

I also have a dedicated angry spear. Its head extends longer than usual down the shaft, and it has thicker and longer shaft padding, including a layer of 2mm craft foam down the handle. That one I've been known to cross check with on rare occasion, use the pommel for weapon manipulation (also rarely) and get more liberal with how I move to block. Angry spears tend to run on the heavy side, but the associated tactics are more useful for short spears anyway.

Varadin · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2012, 12:20:58 pm »

push okay,

swung. bad

shove is fine

I have many a time thrown a person to the ground with the haft of my spear, Not my fault they ran into it.

Barnabis The Great · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:00:07 pm »

This brings up something one of my friends said was ok to do, but not 100% sure on. If I have a red he will grab a punch shield and short sword. As soon as the fight starts he will charge me so that my weapon is pinned between my chest and his shield. Then he gets my back. When the fight is over, he'll tell me I need to cross check him with my shaft. I never do because I'm afraid I might seriously hurt him. I know that I can do it because he said it was ok and that it's our practice but, can I legally do that at a dag event?

Sarus · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:19:23 pm »

Absolutely. Haft checking is a glorious thing when done safely, and pretty much a necessity in red vs. SnB. Half-step towards his shield side and knock him away from you, striking at him while he's moving away.

Kyrax the Hobbled · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:20:59 pm »

Quote from: Barnabis The Great on January 23, 2012, 02:00:07 pm

This brings up something one of my friends said was ok to do, but not 100% sure on. If I have a red he will grab a punch shield and short sword. As soon as the fight starts he will charge me so that my weapon is pinned between my chest and his shield. Then he gets my back. When the fight is over, he'll tell me I need to cross check him with my shaft. I never do because I'm afraid I might seriously hurt him. I know that I can do it because he said it was ok and that it's our practice but, can I legally do that at a dag event?

Sure you can cross-check his shield to push him back. I'd do it while backpedalling to open up room and allow you to hit his leg or take swing two at the shield. Also, the fun of a punch-grip shield is that it is easy to moveout of your way.

Or even simpler, take the first shot at his legs to stop his charge. If he tries to block with the shield, swing hard enough and you'll move the shield out of your way and take the leg anyway.

Redwycke · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2012, 03:59:16 pm »

Thanks to all! Good advice and insight.....so to be sure a "push" making contact lightly then applyiing force is ethical and legal....however to "swing" the spear (non offensively but as a defensive or positioning maneuver) is NOT legal...did I get that right?? If so makes sense to me...will be sure to adjust my tatics in the future....

One other slight varioation...what if a spear(s) is used as a barrier...held side ways to hinder forward movement?? Legal or BS?

Gaul · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2012, 04:51:51 pm »

Unless you're likely to hit someone, you can move your spear in pretty much any way you want. I do not know about the barrier thing, though. Never tried it or seen anyone try it. Sounds like it could be done safely, though.

Olos · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2012, 05:14:00 pm »

Pushing is fine.
Stay away from swinging as much as possible. You can knock a shield out of the way some, but it can be hard to do this without hitting the person behind it.

If you're really wanting to agressively bat shields/weapons/fighters out of the way, get a glaive.

The holding sideways thing sounds like a crosscheck, which is fine, with a couple caveats. Basically, try to use it against their shield, and try to keep it relatively low. If you hold it sideways high, it WILL (maybe not every time, but sometimes for sure) smash the other fighter in the face with your unpadded haft, which really sucks. I would try to stay away from doing this on unshielded fighters, as you should be stabbing them in the gut if they rush you anyway.

Barnabis The Great · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2012, 05:25:22 pm »

good to know

Kyrax the Hobbled · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:04:31 pm »

Good point Olos.

I can almost guarantee you that high cross-checking to a strapped or punched shield will rotate the shield out of the way and you will hit them in the face, if not the body or head. That is a lesson I learned early in my polearm fighting days.

Look at how people strap or grip their shields and try to hit below that point, then the natural shield rotation will force your weapon shaft down.

Reverend · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2012, 11:16:45 pm »

Quote from: Twinkle-toed Kyrax on January 23, 2012, 10:04:31 pm

Good point Olos.

I can almost guarantee you that high cross-checking to a strapped or punched shield will rotate the shield out of the way and you will hit them in the face, if not the body or head. That is a lesson I learned early in my polearm fighting days.

Look at how people strap or grip their shields and try to hit below that point, then the natural shield rotation will force your weapon shaft down.

Try not to go into the face, but accidents happen and no one should get butt-hurt about it.

Forkbeard broke one of my molars with a cross check to the shield that slid up. He got the kill and my dentist is convinced I do meth now. Win/Win.

Kyrax the Hobbled · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2012, 01:36:07 pm »

Quote from: Reverend on January 23, 2012, 11:16:45 pm

Quote from: Twinkle-toed Kyrax on January 23, 2012, 10:04:31 pm
Good point Olos.

I can almost guarantee you that high cross-checking to a strapped or punched shield will rotate the shield out of the way and you will hit them in the face, if not the body or head. That is a lesson I learned early in my polearm fighting days.

Look at how people strap or grip their shields and try to hit below that point, then the natural shield rotation will force your weapon shaft down.

Try not to go into the face, but accidents happen and no one should get butt-hurt about it.

Yes, but my point was that if that "accident" happens repeatedly, there's obviously something that I needed to do differently. I learned to check lower to avoid the situation most of the time.

Reverend · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2012, 03:58:34 pm »

Quote from: Twinkle-toed Kyrax on January 24, 2012, 01:36:07 pm

Quote from: Reverend on January 23, 2012, 11:16:45 pm
Quote from: Twinkle-toed Kyrax on January 23, 2012, 10:04:31 pm
Good point Olos.

I can almost guarantee you that high cross-checking to a strapped or punched shield will rotate the shield out of the way and you will hit them in the face, if not the body or head. That is a lesson I learned early in my polearm fighting days.

Look at how people strap or grip their shields and try to hit below that point, then the natural shield rotation will force your weapon shaft down.

Try not to go into the face, but accidents happen and no one should get butt-hurt about it.

Yes, but my point was that if that "accident" happens repeatedly, there's obviously something that I needed to do differently. I learned to check lower to avoid the situation most of the time.

Sorry, wasn't intended as a judgement against you or anyone else. I've found that 99% of the time those "accidents" are caused by the person receiving. When Fork broke my tooth, I was the one that angled my shield in such a way as to drive it up.

I wrote out a whole long thing of rambling nonsense to help illustrate my point, but was gibberish when I re-read it, so I'll leave with that.

Tiny Tim · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2012, 11:58:07 am »

Don't need to swing with this, it moves the weapons/people/shields for me!

Barnabis The Great · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:32:42 pm »

Quote from: Tiny Tim on February 12, 2012, 11:58:07 am

Don't need to swing with this, it moves the weapons/people/shields for me!

..vat?

Dudley S. Grimes · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:43:16 pm »

What is this thing I'm looking at?

Tiny Tim · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:48:43 pm »

2 handed spear

Rafiq's Slightly Used Camels · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:06:00 pm »

Most spears can be used two handed.

Tiny Tim · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:08:01 pm »

my hands aren't big enough to hold this 16 pound monstrosity around it's shaft heh

Nåal Tyrok · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:14:31 pm »

Quote from: Tiny Tim on February 12, 2012, 03:08:01 pm

my hands aren't big enough to hold this 16 pound monstrosity around it's shaft heh

Wat.

Arrakis · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:47:20 pm »

Quote from: His Lordship, Dudley S. Thunder on February 12, 2012, 02:43:16 pm

What is this thing I'm looking at?

A failing abortion.

A waste of perfectly useful bluefoam.

A tragedy of intellect.

A bad idea brought to its ridiculous conclusion.

A lesson to us all.

Dudley S. Grimes · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:50:25 pm »

Arrakis so smart.

Can you smart for me real quick?

Do you know how DAP would affect Tyvek tape?

Odran · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:25:42 pm »

Quote from: Tiny Tim on February 12, 2012, 11:58:07 am

Don't need to swing with this, it moves the weapons/people/shields for me!

Can I get an image of this weapon being held, so I can some idea of how big it is?

Also, why is the whole length of the core padded?

Tiny Tim · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:50:51 pm »

Don't have one on hand but it's about 13-14 ft long and about 17 inches in diameter at it's thinnest area.

I padded the entirety just for safety reasons and plan to add a third layer towards the stabbing end for the same reason. It's just quite heavy and I want to make sure everything is sufficiently padded for a weapon of it's size and weight. People say it hits like a truck made of pillows heh.

Alric · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2012, 08:05:11 pm »

Battering ram, guys. I'd love to build the Rag castle some gates from a few layers of 4" thick insulation planks and attack it with something like this.

Arrakis · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:59:36 am »

Quote from: His Lordship, Dudley S. Thunder on February 12, 2012, 04:50:25 pm

Arrakis so smart.

Can you smart for me real quick?

Do you know how DAP would affect Tyvek tape?

Never done it myself, but according to this: http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weatherization/en_US/assets/downloads/Master%20Architect%20Binder/Installation%20Assistance/Commercial%20Accessories/Commercial%20Tape%20Building%20Science%20Bulletin.pdf the stuff is polypropylene, which is what a lot of foams we use are made out of (or close enough), so it shouldn't melt or anything.

Milo Baines · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:46:35 pm »

Quote from: Alric on February 12, 2012, 08:05:11 pm

Battering ram, guys.

That explains the little thingummies sticking out the side.

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Author Topic: Using the haft of a spear....am I allowed to do this?? (Read 1410 times)