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[Bane Blackhammer]

I'm new to Dagorhir (last week was my first event, a local chapter practice).  It's great fun, and I'm enjoying myself immensely.  However, one nagging issue has left a bad taste in my mouth, and that's the fact that some of the people I fought with simply would not take death if they'd been hit.  The worst offender was a guy who by all appearances looked like an experienced "vet" of Dag.  His garb and armor were authentic and looked well worn, as did his weapons.  He was also a talented fighter and whenever we'd meet up on the battlefield, he'd win 7/10 times.

But 3/10 times it was like pulling teeth to get him to accept death.  And it was VERY frustrating.  At one point I pulled a feint and then delivered a beautiful cut to his unarmored shield arm that connected solidly and audibly with his bicep.  He continued holding the shield as if nothing had happened.

Bewildered, I stopped the fight and asked him why he wasn't dropping his shield, and he replied "I never took a hit to that arm".  I'm ashamed to say that I was so pissed off that I essentially implied that if he didn't immediately drop the shield he was going to have a much different kind of fight on his hands, and he finally complied.  The rest of the afternoon was wonderful except for that one nagging issue.

I know I handled it wrong.  And being a taller, physically imposing person I don't want to be seen as a "bully".  But what do you do when the honor system is not being upheld?

(Btw, I wasn't throwing light hits either.  Midway through the practice I broke one of their loaner blues)

[Silk]

First thing is to talk to them before the next practice. Let them know that you thought you'd hit them a few more times than they recognized last time and ask them if they noticed any of them. If they stonewall you they're probably a jerk. Helpful vets will tell you if they thought your hits were light or grazing. Remember that Dagorhir doesn't recognize draw cuts, it must be a hit. If he's not a jerk, but doesn't remember the previous practice clearly he may offer to spar with you some more and see if there's something that you're doing wrong.

Failing those options, talk to the person coordinating the practice. Ask THEM to watch you fighting and see if it's just that you're not adjusted to Dag or if your opponents are really being "too awesome" to take your hits.

Most new people have similar problems and get angry at the people who aren't taking their hits. Use other folks who have been around longer than you have as a barometer. If someone is actually cheating, the person in charge of the practice should handle it.  If you need adjusting, asking a vet is the best way to find out and get adjusted.

[Forkbeard Rex]

Speaking as a huge ****ing guy, offering to beat some one up for not taking your hits is very very wrong. Do not ever do it again. I don't know you local group, but at an inter realm event you will just get your ass handed to you by some little dude. Then you'll be banned from Dag for fist fighting and everyone will laugh at you. Violence is not the answer and there are definetly more violent and highly skilled people in this group than you.

In this game, things can connect solidly and audibly and still be called light. Sufficent force is up to the person being hit. If he did not feel you hit him hard enough, or correctly, he has every right to call light. In my mind, this is the only thing the "vet" did wrong in your story, assuming he did NOT call"light" when you hit him. If he did call light, well, that's just Dagorhir.
But it sounds like he may have just been a dickhead. Hit him harder.
That always works on everyone.

[Maker Magpie]

There are also times when you can think you see your sword hit someone in one location, when it reality it did not. Maybe you just hit their shield and did not notice correctly. Some vets really are that good, some just think they're that good.

If other vets or near-vets do not think this person cheats, then you are probably the one in the wrong. If other vets or near-vets acknowledge that this person does have a problem taking hits, then, well, that's probably the way of things.

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

Food for thought. I cant tell you how many times (but it's allot) I have apologized to another fighter cause I was sure I cracked them in the head, only to be told that it was a legit shoulder shot. In these instances, I was absolutely sure that I saw MY weapon crack them square in the head. This happens to me to this day and I have been fighting since 1982. Never, and I mean never, assume you know better than your opponent, where your shot landed. I will admit that there are people who are less than honorable in this game, and it is a pity, but I, and you, should give them the benefit of the doubt, until your suspicions of dishonorable fighting are confirmed by others. It is at that point that you tell the herald on the field.

Many new fighters 'think' they hit me and others on the field, many also feel the need to call their hits on their opponents, this is wrong, stop doing it. The words "I got you in the leg" should only be uttered by an archer, never by a melee' fighter.

[Ravus]

It's just a game bra'. if someone doesn't take your hits, either hit them again, or hit someone else.

that said, When people blow my shots off i just get snarky. usually a "No? I didn't Just stab you in the gut?" is sufficient BS calling to make them take the next one.

[Gaul]

To avoid this kind of conflict, I have decided to start dropping my hit calibration when I am hot and tired.  I ended up in a position similar to the vet in this story, just a week or so ago, except it started with the noob trying to one-hand me with an eight-foot glaive without much room to wind up.  He thought it was good and I didn't, and then he got angry and started perceiving a lot of other cheating in my behavior.  The subsequent cheating was definitely imaginary, but I'm really not sure about the first hit in hindsight.  It was settled calmly after we got some more water in us, though.  Which is good, because I'm no good at real fighting and he was abut a head taller than me.  The next time I end up in a scenario like that, I'll consider the fact that my own judgment may be clouded by the heat and err on the side of caution.  I would advise any skilled fighter with high hit calibrations to do the same when they're significantly hot and tired.  Or any unskilled fighter, for that matter, but people get more angry when vets appear to cheat.

But the most common hit confusion I get is when I throw a ****ty stab that seems to barely touch the target, but apparently landed very solidly.  In general, the recipient has a much clearer idea of how he was hit than the attacker.  This is why I usually double-tap.  Because the above sometimes happens in reverse too.

[Gunnlaugr]

Also keep in mind that most people who constantly blow off shots usually don't stick around in the game that long.

[Cyrus Al-Hazra]

i have seen many people vets and noobs do this, i tack it up to "oh well i will hit harder next time". I have seen many vets play the tap game and never even felt the hit. I mean i am a bigger guy. If i have armor on and someone plays the "tap your dead game" i wont take the hit if i didn't feel it. but if i feel it a little bit i will take the hit it is all in fun, some like to play by the rules other just suck. For all the rhino hiders: just take your hits your not the best fighter. Your just a shmuck.

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

I have come to the conclusion that there are no rhino hiders, or people that don't want to take their hits on the field; there are only people who want to be hit harder and more often; and as I am here to hit people as hard and often as possible, I assume they want me to have as good a time as possible.

I normally hit people at about 60% strength, this varies a bit depending on the speed I think I need to move to get a shot to land. If someone blows off a shot I am sure I made, I amp it up to about 90% and start throwing more shots, because I want to be sure it landed.

Since I have adapted to this philosophy, the game has gotten to be a whole lot more fun, and I leave feeling a whole lot less butthurt.

[Cyrus Al-Hazra]

I like your style. Hit them hard once if that is not enough make them do the ouch face hahahaha

[Syre Jari Kafghan the Dark Knight]

If they do the ouch face 3 times, odds are you got them to take a shot. Its effective.

[Cyrus Al-Hazra]

i love doing that. oh i miss the old days of my large ax an coke hammer.

[Dane]

I'm new to Dagorhir (last week was my first event, a local chapter practice). . . . He was also a talented fighter and whenever we'd meet up on the battlefield, he'd win 7/10 times.

Those two sentences aren't meshing well for me. Either you're not new, or he's not talented.

As to dealing with people "not taking your hits":

I have come to the conclusion that there are no rhino hiders, or people that don't want to take their hits on the field; there are only people who want to be hit harder . . .

This, really. The moment you start assuming that if he didn't take a hit, your shot wasn't good enough is the moment combat drama flies out of the game. I mean, there are rhinohiders. There are people who have hands that come up to their elbows and legs that go-go-gadget extend up to their armpits whenever they get hit where normal people have hips. Oh, well. Just do better.

If you really think there's a problem, talk to a herald. If there's no herald, talk to someone who can talk to the guy from whom he'll take it seriously. A lot of guys with bad reps would be horrified to know that people have an issue with their hit-taking, and if someone would just tell them, they'd either explain the misconception or work to improve.

And maybe you were hitting light. Breaking a sword isn't necessarily indicative of your stroke.

[Olos]

Being your first event/practice, it's entirely likely that you were in fact hitting light.  There's a lot more to swing strength than how big or strong you are (and often the "big" guys aren't really all that strong).

On the flip side of that, though, a vet should lower their calibration somewhat for a brand new fighter, and take the hit, while telling them that next time they should hit harder.  Also, any time a strike lands and for whatever reason you don't take a limb or death, the reason for not doing so should be communicated (graze, light, armor, etc.).  On this, it seems that the vet you encountered was certainly in the wrong, and thus, pretty much this whole situation is his fault.

However, as you and others have said, taking it to fists over on-field hit taking (or even threatening to) is always the wrong answer.  Save that for something that's worth it.

If you are that sure that you connected solidly on him, do it again, shouldn't be that hard, and put some stank on it this time. 


Without knowing the fighter's name, we can't really tell you whether that fighter is known for rhino-hiding or not, and I wouldn't really suggest namecalling here on the boards.  It really just isn't worth it.



Oh, and double-plus to everything Dane and Jari said.  Would've had all of that in my post as well but didn't want to make it like 3 pages long.

[Arrakis]

And maybe you were hitting light. Breaking a sword isn't necessarily indicative of your stroke.

I'll do it, if no one else will:

You were hitting too lightly.  You were using all arm, no hips.  You don't understand yet how to hit "hard" the way good fighters define it.  Likely there are only one or two or even zero people at your local practice who will be able to explain it worth a damn, as well. 

Anyway, point is: Think of every fight not as a chance to win, but a chance to learn.  If you can hit someone who's a little thick three times before he can kill you and he takes the third one, good; other fighters should be that much easier to kill.  Work on hitting harder and more precisely, on calling light audibly when you get hit lightly, on your own calibration (which is probably either too low or too high right now), and on not getting hit while you deliver your blows.

And don't worry about your kill ratio.  It super doesn't matter. 


Edit: Aaaaand lol slightly ninja'd by Olos.

[Bane Blackhammer]

There is some extremely sound advice being given here.  Thanks everyone for your input.

I'm super ashamed of how I handled the situation.  In hindsight, I feel like a dick about how I treated the guy.  I shouldn't have lost my temper like that.  It's just a game after all.  This weekend if he's there I think I'm gonna go apologize and ask him about the incident and how I can improve.

I also like what Dane said about k/d ratio.  I think I'm going about Dag the wrong way.  In my mind it was a super competitive sport, and I guess I was nervous my first time out.  I didn't want to be the big clumsy guy that does everything wrong.  Gotta remember that I'm just there to have fun.

Live and learn I guess.

[Bane Blackhammer]

EDIT:  Arrakis pointed out the k/d ratio, not Dane.  Got my names mixed up.

[Rafiq's Slightly Used Camels]

If it is a practice you have the lovely option of just stopping and asking the guy "well how hard do I need to hit you for you to take it?" and then he would hopefully let you hit him a couple times with increasing power until he says "that's good"

And then you'd know.

[Olos]

EDIT:  Arrakis pointed out the k/d ratio, not Dane.  Got my names mixed up.

It's all good, they're basically the same person anyway, except for hair. 


Sounds like you've chilled down a bit, which is very cool.  Hope you enjoy your time here.

[Dane]

In my mind it was a super competitive sport, and I guess I was nervous my first time out.

It can still be super competitive. You just have to keep a clear head.

[Atalan]

Something no one has mentioned:

The vet, according to this story, did not say "light" to let him know it was light.

[Alric]

Yeah - calling light isn't required, but it can help avoid miscommunications and accusations of rhinohiding.

[Gaul]

I seem to remember reading in the first post that the vet stated, when questioned, that he was not hit in the arm at all.  I would bet against this being a case of a beginner not hitting hard enough or a vet not calling light when it might have been a good idea.  Not that that isn't a real issue, but I'm inclined to believe the issue at hand was mistaking a blocked shot for one that struck flesh.

Just in case, Gavarond, I would recommend keeping an eye on him and seeing if other people encounter the same problem.

[Troan of Albion]

hehe he probably just rhinohided. It's not that uncommon, people dislike losing to new fighters. And as Dane said, if you're beating him 3/10 times at your first fight then he's probably not good.

As stated before, just hit them harder. If they continue not taking hits just continue hitting them hard, eventually you can soften up even the toughest hide.

On a side note a good way to figure out if it's you. Spar him and ask a more veteran fighter to watch and tell you what you're doing wrong. If you think a shot connected, ask the observer about it and what about that shot was wrong. It may just be him, but this is the least dickish way to go about confirming that.

[Aondor]

people will cheat at checkers...

My best advice is simply don't fight rhino hiders.

They aren't worth your time and ruin your experience just ignore they are there

[Ianmoons]

If they won't take their hits. Hit them harder. If they still won't hit them right in them in the Dick. It's not illegal and it is a good teacher

[Rafiq's Slightly Used Camels]

Yeah, it is a great way to teach people the lesson that you are an a-hole.

[Magnus]

Stab more. Stabs hit harder with less effort. Doubly true of crotch stabs.*


*Stabs you make to their crotch, not stabs you make with your crotch.