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[Eastland]

If i am shield charged, can i slam y shoulder into said shield, knocking smarmy skinny shield bearer on his ass?

Like, when someone grabs a spear shaft, and pins it under their arm, i know i could just grab them by the arm, or wrist,<internet tough guy> but im not comfortable grabbing any joints as the fast people are much smaller than me, (literally 5-12 inches 50-100 lbs. difference) So i was thinking instead of kicking them over, i could just kinda push em, i dont know what to look up in the rules on this, and i would appreciate some expert input.




[to anyone who's been paying attention, Backyard'ohir is up to 25 people now,
Garb for 3, still looking for cheap tunics(under $20).
Equipment : 3 javelins, 12 blues swords, 3 clubs, 2 flails, 1 massive red sword, 2 glaives, and 2 spears garret.

[Rafiq's Slightly Used Camels]

Yup, if you aren't wearing armor you can body check people, just be careful as always. Safety first.
You can definitely kick or shoulder check someone's shield if they are charging you. One of my favorite times on a battlefield was using a 6ft red while having lost my right arm and having a shieldman who was a bit bigger charge me, I dropped the weapon (useless in my left hand), planted my feet and put my right shoulder into his shield, knocking him back and down. Got some serious props for that move.

[Garret Ironshield]

(Off topic: You should start calling it Dagorhir.

And good for you! Twenty-five strong with a good set of weapons!)

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

Nothing wrong with that brudda. When you get older, the need to do that is taken over by the desire to kill efficiently, deftly stepping to one side and killing them as they stumble by gives me more kills and keeps me from getting all banged up in my old age. Although i am not adverse to the occasional knock down, that is fun too. 

[hivemind]

Everything you're asking is both legal and encouraged.

This ain't stick tag.

[Eastland]

Oh i am printing this, thanks guys!

[Kelmain]

Yup, if you aren't wearing armor you can body check people, just be careful as always. Safety first.

Body checking is legal and I do not believe it is prohibited in armour.  Obviously, any check that is "dangerous" is a problem, but a check by an armour wearer is not inherently worse than a check by anyone else of roughly equal total weight.

Rule 4.9.5 - Body checks (blocking your opponent's movement using one's body) are allowed.  Clarifies to me that body checks are not considered grappling and are so common as to warrant being expressly allowed.  Grappling is attempting to seize and control your opponent.  No reasonable definition of grappling should include a single body check.

[Eastland]

So what your saying is, if i knock him down, on account of him being smaller, than me, its not my fault, Got it!

[hivemind]

You can't teach size.

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

Yup, if you aren't wearing armor you can body check people, just be careful as always. Safety first.

Body checking is legal and I do not believe it is prohibited in armour.  Obviously, any check that is "dangerous" is a problem, but a check by an armour wearer is not inherently worse than a check by anyone else of roughly equal total weight.

Rule 4.9.5 - Body checks (blocking your opponent's movement using one's body) are allowed.  Clarifies to me that body checks are not considered grappling and are so common as to warrant being expressly allowed.  Grappling is attempting to seize and control your opponent.  No reasonable definition of grappling should include a single body check.

Note - this has been a discussion about body-checking a shield.  For that it doesn't matter if you're armored or not, there's no rules against it. 

Body-checking a person?  That's a slippery slope.  Banging into someone while fighting, no worries.  Yes, body-checking isn't grappling, per se.  But charging at a person and putting your shoulder into them, that could easily become unsafe, armored or not. 

[hivemind]

Body-checking a person?  That's a slippery slope. 

Not at all, sir. The rules expressly permit it.

[Eastland]

same guy, when you go to kick his shield, he moves it out of the way, and bitches that you hit him. Im considering just banning him all together, or starting to red his back shield a lot.

[hivemind]

If he's doing it on purpose, essentially "drawing the charge" to use a basketball analogy, then **** him.

If he's got a small or really active shield, stop trying to kick it.

[Eastland]

Oh, can you grab a shield ?

[Tooka the Gangly Goblin]

same guy, when you go to kick his shield, he moves it out of the way, and bitches that you hit him. Im considering just banning him all together, or starting to red his back shield a lot.

This quote makes me sad you are in any position of leadership in any group to have the authority to ban someone over something so stupid. I'm guessing you kick one side of his shield, and swing for the other? So why wouldn't he see the kick coming, and assume you were throwing for his opposite side, and hence, move his shield. If it bothers you so much you would "ban him all together" maybe you should just stop kicking his shield instead of losing a fighter on your field.

Yes you can grab your opponents shield.

[hivemind]

Sure. You can grab anything you want, except a striking surface of an opponent's weapon. It's bad form to grab them by the hair or something though...

[Eastland]

same guy, when you go to kick his shield, he moves it out of the way, and bitches that you hit him. Im considering just banning him all together, or starting to red his back shield a lot.

This quote makes me sad you are in any position of leadership in any group to have the authority to ban someone over something so stupid. I'm guessing you kick one side of his shield, and swing for the other? So why wouldn't he see the kick coming, and assume you were throwing for his opposite side, and hence, move his shield.

Yes you can grab your opponents shield.

I see how you took that, and i usually draw little pictures , its a face to face situation,  I go to kick the shield and he moves it In any way that will change the path of my foot, from his shield to his body, then bitch that it happens, like walking out into traffic, then blaming the car for hitting you.

And its a cumulative problem that is legitimizing the banning, blowing off hits, not taking ANY reds from anyone, defiance for the sake of defiance.

Ive corrected most of the problem by hitting him so hard he falls to the ground coughing, then im "hitting to hard". So i just tell i want to make sure he feels it.
and the response is always " i dont cheat"

[hivemind]

No such thing as hitting too hard.

[Eastland]

Additionally, im like the opposite of power-abusive, i only remove people when they are a threat to the safety of others, or if they repeatedly cheat, and everyone thinks its a good idea for them to go. and the person is informed that people don't like what they are doing, its not solely my decision, it's just my 1-7 acres (depending on location)

The only guy we have banned so far, was continually swinging has hard as he could, and blasting people in the face, more often face than anything else, we talked to him about it, and he said he "just cant control himself" so we had to stop using him. Witch, correct me if im wrong, seems like a good plan

[Tooka the Gangly Goblin]

Yeah people need to learn control before they learn to hit hard. We've had big guys come out and throw haymaker style shots, that are just as likely to hit you in the chest as they are to hit you in the face. We basically had to tell him he needs to learn to control it, or he won't be fighting, and we offered up support to help him learn through pell work.

As for whiny people, sometimes they just aren't meant for Dag, and you have to give people that ultimatum to improve themselves and break those ****ty habits, or move on to another sport/game.

[Forkbeard Rex]

If he moves his shield and lets you kick him, it's his ****ing fault.
Why would you NOT do red shots to a back sheild? Is that considered rude or some ****? What they hell kind of group are you running?
Banning him for not knowing how to fight is stupid. TEACH him how to fight.
Teach him not to be the kind of twat who deliberatly moves his shield and lets himself be kicked.
FB

[Eastland]

If he moves his shield and lets you kick him, it's his ****ing fault.
Why would you NOT do red shots to a back sheild? Is that considered rude or some ****? What they hell kind of group are you running?
Banning him for not knowing how to fight is stupid. TEACH him how to fight.
Teach him not to be the kind of twat who deliberatly moves his shield and lets himself be kicked.
FB

Ah FB you missed my earlier bitching, this kid has been being a douche for a year.

ive taught him how not to be a douche, but he continues to be a douche after he dies a few times. Im not banning him for not knowing what to do, it would be for refusing to do what he is supposed to.

I stopped Reding people in the back when i was informed at the season closer that it was "frowned upon"

And we don't have a pell Tooka,though i would like to build one. We use me instead i'm relativity tall and sturdy, Plus, im people shaped! sorta.

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

IDK man, I have not met too many noobs packing lots of power even in their haymakers. Your field might have some crappy weapons or you have too many wusses.

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

Body-checking a person?  That's a slippery slope. 

Not at all, sir. The rules expressly permit it.

Hive - don't be silly.  Sure, the rules do allow body checking, I didn't claim that they said otherwise.  Read the rest of the post that you didn't quote for more details and then apply Rule Zero:  "...In applying the rules, safety comes first..."

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

I stopped Reding people in the back when i was informed at the season closer that it was "frowned upon"

Red-ing in the back, yeah, totally unnecessary if they're unarmored.  Fair game if they're armored or have a shield slung on their back. 

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

I stopped Reding people in the back when i was informed at the season closer that it was "frowned upon"

That person lied to you!! You can ease up on the unarmored and the frail, but that's it.

And we don't have a pell Tooka,though i would like to build one. We use me instead i'm relativity tall and sturdy, Plus, im people shaped! sorta.

Nothing wrong with that. Pells are for when there are no people to hit.

[Garret Ironshield]

1. Give him a copy of the rules.
2. Sit him down under a tree and tell him:

"You have two choices: you can A) read the rules and get back to me on what you've been doing wrong, or B) leave. I'll check back in an hour or two."

3. If he refuses, tell him to leave. He obviously picked "B".
4. If he persists and picks up weapons to fight, stop everybody from fighting and say:

"Before, I sat you down so you can learn. That only disrupted your fun. Now you have disrupted everybody else's fun. Not only is that unacceptable, it's rude. I would suggest leaving before you make everybody else hate you, too."

With the weight of you group's similar opinions behind you, he'll either leave, or adhere to the rules. Peer-pressure and all that. But if he continues, repeat the process until he gets the idea that you don't like cheaters, and won't abstain from ruining their fun in order to preserve everybody else's.

[Eastland]

Solid idea! we have like a counsel thing with the 4 people that live here, and 3 others, our "Senior" dagohir person has been playing for 6+ years, we difer to him on most things. but he has a copy of the rules, he knows them all, just rhino hiding douchge mastering XD

We mostly been solving them problem with well placed double greens and javelins.
If someones on the ground they cant pretend they didnt feel that.
And its not my fault if they don't wear a cup, right?

I am going to do this though, so there will be no excuses other than "you are cheating cuz you are butthurt"

[Serint]

1. Give him a copy of the rules.
2. Sit him down under a tree and tell him:

"You have two choices: you can A) read the rules and get back to me on what you've been doing wrong, or B) leave. I'll check back in an hour or two."

3. If he refuses, tell him to leave. He obviously picked "B".
4. If he persists and picks up weapons to fight, stop everybody from fighting and say:

"Before, I sat you down so you can learn. That only disrupted your fun. Now you have disrupted everybody else's fun. Not only is that unacceptable, it's rude. I would suggest leaving before you make everybody else hate you, too."

With the weight of you group's similar opinions behind you, he'll either leave, or adhere to the rules. Peer-pressure and all that. But if he continues, repeat the process until he gets the idea that you don't like cheaters, and won't abstain from ruining their fun in order to preserve everybody else's.

Sounds like you've had experience doing that. 

[Forkbeard Rex]

 I can and will hit anyone in the back with my red weapon who exposes their back to me. I,ll hit them just as hard as I hit them from the front, every ****ing time.
If anyone ever, EVER tells you that is not allowed, they are a bald faced, deliberate ****ing LIAR.
If they tell you its frowned upon, tell them to go eat a bag of dicks. And frown all they like. You not here to make them smile.
Fb

[Jack Stewart III]

Just don't get pissy when they start throwing vertical shots and stabs to the groin. They aren't illegal and we're not here to make you smile either...

[Cassius]

Wait, what's the issue with vertical shots?

Also, a red shot to mid and high back isn't bad, you don't exactly have alot of nerve endings there.

[Eastland]

rofl thats awesome

yeah the kid sorta fell down, but he had a huge shield, i wanted to make sure he felt it.

[Garret Ironshield]

[yada yada]

Sounds like you've had experience doing that. 

He wasn't that bad, that I had to do this.

[Aondor]

Everything you're asking is both legal and encouraged.

This ain't stick tag.

<---- Winning!

[Silk]

Wait, what's the issue with vertical shots?

They are legal, but please be careful that you don't come down on someone's head. That is the only thing that I can think of that is wrong with vertical shots.

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

A good thump from behind from a backhacker? Good idea, remove all doubt as to my death. Stabbing/swinging at my junk? Fine by me, that's Dag 101, protect the jewels. If you are not good at that, how the hell can you call yourself a fighter?

[Garret Ironshield]

If you can't protect your jewels, you obviously aren't a good enough fighter to earn the right of passing down your genes.

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

I can and will hit anyone in the back with my red weapon who exposes their back to me. I,ll hit them just as hard as I hit them from the front, every ****ing time.
If anyone ever, EVER tells you that is not allowed, they are a bald faced, deliberate ****ing LIAR.
If they tell you its frowned upon, tell them to go eat a bag of dicks. And frown all they like. You not here to make them smile.
Fb

All true.  But the rules also allow me to full-draw at 21 feet and fire an arrow at your face.  I try to avoid over-drawing, as in using more force than needed, and try to aim away from the face if I know I can still get the kill shot in.  That's just courtesy.  That and I don't want you or another fighter seeking vengeance in their next life. 

Your millage may vary.

[Eastland]

i try really hard not to be a stupid jerk, but sometimes other stupid jerks only understand stupid jerks, so javelins to the testicles at max power do the trick apparently , he just quit going.

[Jack Stewart III]

Wait, what's the issue with vertical shots?

To paraphrase Silk, they have the tendency to strike head and even when they don't, they tend to give your cheek a little 'love-tap' afterwords.

I can and will hit anyone in the back with my red weapon who exposes their back to me. I,ll hit them just as hard as I hit them from the front, every ****ing time.
If anyone ever, EVER tells you that is not allowed, they are a bald faced, deliberate ****ing LIAR.
If they tell you its frowned upon, tell them to go eat a bag of dicks. And frown all they like. You not here to make them smile.
Fb

All true.  But the rules also allow me to full-draw at 21 feet and fire an arrow at your face.  I try to avoid over-drawing, as in using more force than needed, and try to aim away from the face if I know I can still get the kill shot in.  That's just courtesy.  That and I don't want you or another fighter seeking vengeance in their next life. 

Your millage may vary.

Thank you Kyrax. Well said.

[Casimir Glassjaw]

There is no issue with throwing vertical shots, it sounds like you have an issue throwing them safely.  I don't throw a shot I don't think I can safely control.

[Eastland]

I pointed out the person was cheating.

He unfriended me, and my entire family on facebook!

So i dont even have to worry about it yay!

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

I throw vertical shots but they are underhand and quite often connect as a legal head shot. Muahahahahhaa

[Rafiq's Slightly Used Camels]

There is no issue with throwing vertical shots, it sounds like you have an issue throwing them safely.  I don't throw a shot I don't think I can safely control.

Where you is read as "a large percentage of dagorhirrim."

[Forkbeard Rex]

I do the vertical shoulder chop all the time, also. I do not hit people in the head. If I brush your cheek, you are within your rights to not take it. When I get hit with a flail haft, I do not take the shot for the same reason. Haft is not legal and negates the rest of the shot. My vertical shot is negated by contact with your head. Even-steven.
Kyrax, you are perfectly welcome to shoot me full draw in the face from 21 feet. I encourage you to do so. Those are the rules of our game. If your arrows pass, my face will be fine. If they do not, my face will get hurt, but I'll live. Thats the risk I assume when taking the field. I would NEVER be angry with anyone for hurting me while legally playing the game, nor from any accidental **** that happens while playing.
I truly do not understand people who get all mad about getting hurt. We play a very dangerous game. Full grown adults(mostly men) charging about a field trying their best, with every fiber of their being, to smash each other to the ground with shields and sticks. Ususally while some guy shoot arrows into the pile of stupid. I assume I am going to be hurt ALOT. I think it's funny.
I do not get mad when people hit me a couple extra times as I die. They are just trying to make sure they got me so they can win. Good for them, I do the same thing(which seemed to piss off some people at rag). I hit you until you either lay down OR yell "I'm Dead". And if I can't hear the "I'm dead", I may hit you an extra time, anyway.
Everyone needs to butch up.

[Varadin]

When I get hit with a flail haft, I do not take the shot for the same reason. Haft is not legal and negates the rest of the shot.

Sadly no forkbeard, If you play that way you are outright cheating. If it eats all the power out of the shot thats one thing. but just outright not taking a flail ball because the haft hit you is bull****.

[Maker Magpie]

When I get hit with a flail haft, I do not take the shot for the same reason. Haft is not legal and negates the rest of the shot.

Sadly no forkbeard, If you play that way you are outright cheating. If it eats all the power out of the shot thats one thing. but just outright not taking a flail ball because the haft hit you is bull****.

I'm conflicted on this issue, because I agree with you Varadin, but then again -- intentionally striking with a non-striking surface seems like bigger bull**** to me. To a shield, sure. But to my arm, ribcage, or shoulder? Not cool.

[Kyrax the Hobbled]

When I get hit with a flail haft, I do not take the shot for the same reason. Haft is not legal and negates the rest of the shot.

Sadly no forkbeard, If you play that way you are outright cheating. If it eats all the power out of the shot thats one thing. but just outright not taking a flail ball because the haft hit you is bull****.

I think Magpie's got it right - intentionally using the haft on a person is BS.  The striking surface is the ball, not the haft, hit us with the striking surface. 

So I'd agree with Forkbeard, if the bulk of what I feel in that haft-then-ball shot is the haft, I'm not taking it.  Besides, I'm an unarmored support fighter these days so if you can't hit me without hitting my person with your shaft, you're doing it wrong.  Just to be clear, we're not talking about just touching the person or incidental minor contact - for me if the haft hits me with enough force that if it were a club I'd take the hit, then it was too much.

[Magnus]

I remember at Rag a couple years ago how a well-known flail fighter conked me in the head with his flail shaft. I called "Head" and he said "play the ball, not the haft." Rather than, you know, apologize for hitting me in the head. But then again, this is a fighter whose "head" extends to his shoulders, and whose "legs" go up to his navel, so...I didn't sweat it.