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[Bro'gar]

I have heard Hivemind mention how he mandates the equipment that people are allowed to use and
I'm wondering what other types of techniques people use to promote unit cohesiveness and give people incentives to rank up.


First off a little header so my ranks make more sense.
The unit name is going to be the Haven Rangers, since Haven is a "rogue realm that left to seek peace"
The main focus of the unit would be support or mobile offense.


1. Trainee - just joined

• restricted to single blue

2. Member - must defeat 2 members+ of the Haven Rangers in single blue combat (best 2/3)

• granted use of small shield, javelins, min-red, and two-stick

3. Ranger - must defeat spear, red(5'+), and S&B in single combat with two-stick (best 2/3)

• granted use of all weapons

Has anyone ever used something similar, and did you have success with restricting gear?
My idea is to make the challenges simple enough to beat, but still have it be a decent goal for members of the unit.

The restrictions would only be for at the unit practice, so they could use w/e they wanted at the realm practice.

I'm also planning on filling the practice with block/strike, honor circles, and what not.
I'm going to make a set of 6oz sticks for the block/strike and hopefully a portable pell to bring for the people that don't have one at home.
Mixed in with 4 man team battles and as many technique/scenario drills we can think of.

Any other suggestions for what I should add to the practices or changes/suggestions for the ranks?

I would like to add even higher ranks for people who have been to multiple events, but not sure on the name/requirements.

[Demox]

Personally I hate restricting what someone is allowed to use. I come out to fight, the way I want to fight. I think a unit telling you you cant fight a specific way for your hobby is dumb imho

Your trials are too simple for my tastes as well. You want people to earn these ranks. And what must they do before they are eligible to do said trial.

Also, how long have you been fighting? If the answer is less than 1yr I would highly reccomend putting this idea on the back burner until you get some experience. This would allow for the best chance of your unit being successful

[Magnus]

Yeah, I should ask for clarification: is this a requirement for anyone who comes to practice or fight with your realm? Or just for people who ask/are asked to join your unit?

Because if it's the former, don't do this. If it's the latter, do whatever you want, and see if people decide they want what you're offering. In principle, requiring everyone to become skilled with a single sword (and requiring them to keep that skill up) is not a bad idea, and if it fits with the theme of your unit, and that's a theme that people want to become a part of, then no problem.

[Bro'gar]

3 years, previous lead herald, and event coordinator.
I'm also not trying to just "make my own unit" but giving other members of the realm a chance to drill/practice harder.
The current realm practice is pretty much for fun, and I understand that, but I'm wanting to up my game and gather people who want to do the same.

The reason I start people at single blue is so they start with the basics and build up, instead of walking out the first day with a tower shield and never putting it down.
But to get the next rank all you have to do is beat two people with single-stick, so anyone who isn't a fresh fighter should be able to do that.
And I want that to be easy to get, because like you said, people like variety and choice.

The second rank only allows for light/mobile weapons to help keep people moving (part of the idea of the unit)
Like I said above, I don't want someone to start fighting and get stuck in a certain set. Or work on only their swing game but have no footwork.

The third rank I want to be kind of challenging, so I might add like "must have garb" or "must have been to an event" and "must have your own gear" things like that.
But what would you suggest for a better ranger themed combat challenge?
Maybe I should add a couple different types, like choose your path.
You could get ranger by completing the two-stick challenges, or the archer challenges, or w/e. What about that?


Magnus: yeah its only for my unit, at the realm practices its anything goes. I'm really thinking the unit will be smaller, but that's kinda what I want.

[hivemind]

Personally I hate restricting what someone is allowed to use. I come out to fight, the way I want to fight. I think a unit telling you you cant fight a specific way for your hobby is dumb imho

I think that letting anyone in the unit use anything they want is retarded. How do you think a modern military unit (regular line unit, not an elite unit) would work if they let everyone do whatever they wanted? I figure in the typical 13 man squad, you'd have:

++ Two dudes with shotguns loaded with buckshot, because they heard it's good for killing people on TV
++ One dude with a bolt action Remington Model 700, 'cause that's what he uses to shoot deer with back home
++ One dude with a Remington Model 750, just to laugh at the guy with the Remington Model 700
++ One dude with a BAR. He's big into historical accuracy
++ Three weeaboos with Howa Type 89s
++ One dude with a homemade zip gun, because OMG YOU CAN JUST MAKE THIS STUFF YOURSELF GUYS
++ One dude with a minigun, but no ammo because it's too heavy
++ One dude with a pair of HK Mk23s who played too many video games
++ One dude with a super tacticool HK 416 with EOTech sight, forward grip, and AN/PEQ-2. He doesn't know how to field strip it, and has no batteries for the optics.
++ One dude who didn't show up because he was playing WoW

You want to fight the way you want to fight? Have fun getting mopped up by us all day. You want to win? Join a unit with some organization, some cohesion, and a plan.

[hivemind]

For reference, here's what the Legion does. This is not the latest version, that's on our forums and they're blocked at work, but you get the idea.

The Cairnhold Legion has a rank structure that recognizes leadership by  example, attendance, and appearance. It is structured simply so as to be  easily understood, with clear requirements at each rank.
 
Promotions to Skeleton rank can happen at any time, as it is expected  that most members will be at this rank. Promotions to Ghoul and above  will only happen at Badon Hill, Clash of Kings, or Ragnarok.
 
The following supersedes all previous versions effective 3/24/11.
 
Rank Zero: The Living
The Living are people who have expressed a desire to join the Legion and  are fighting with us on a provisional basis. They wear no unit  heraldry.
 
Rank One: Zombie
The defining characteristic of a Cairnhold Legion Zombie is his  participation.
 
Zombies are members who have fulfilled the following criteria:
1. Attended a battle event with the Legion.
2. Procured primarily black Novice level garb, as stipulated in the  Dagorhir Manual of Arms.
Zombies wear makeup to look undead, and are given a simple black tabard  with an iron cross patch to denote their status within the unit. This  tabard is organizational equipment, and will be returned if the member  leaves the Legion, or when they are promoted to Skeleton.
 
Rank One (alternate): Traitor
A Cairnhold Legion Traitor has no defining characteristics.
 
Traitors are members who have fulfilled the following criteria:
1. Attended a battle event with the Legion.
2. Procured primarily black Novice level garb, as stipulated in the  Dagorhir Manual of Arms.
Zombies wear makeup to look undead, and are given a simple black tabard  with an iron cross patch to denote their status within the unit. This  tabard is organizational equipment, and will be returned if the member  leaves the Legion, or when they are promoted to Skeleton.
3. Traitor is a rank for people who left another Dagorhir unit to join  the Cairnhold Legion. They will remain at Traitor rank for six months  before being allowed to advance to Skeleton rank. This does not mean  that they should not begin fulfilling the requirements for Skeleton rank  (or higher), but that they will be given no rank beyond Traitor until  their six month probationary period is over. Time spent as a Traitor  does not count towards any other rank's time in service requirements.
 
Rank Two: Skeleton
The defining characteristic of a Cairnhold Legion Skeleton is his  appearance.
 
Skeletons are Zombies that fulfill the following criteria:
1. Veteran level garb, as stipulated in the Dagorhir Manual of Arms,  including separate feast garb and feast gear.
2. Procured their own Legion tabard or surcoat and returned their Zombie  tabard.
3. Provide their own weapons, armor, and equipment loadout as  appropriate for their primary assigned role.
Skeletons are given a leather Skeleton mask, which is to be worn during  fighting and feasting at all events, and anytime you are outside the  Legion's campsite at overnight events. They are also provided with a  black leather belt with a Legion Belt Flag, which has a simple Iron  Cross patch on it.
 
Rank Three: Ghoul
The defining characteristic of a Cairnhold Legion Ghoul is his loyalty.
 
Ghouls are Skeletons that fulfill the following criteria:
1. Has attended either Badon Hill or Ragnarok as a member of the Legion.
2. Has been a member of the Legion for six months, regularly attending  practices and scheduled events.
Ghouls are given a second patch to add to their Legion Belt Flag. Ghouls  that wish to further advance in rank should begin the Challenges of  Corruption.
 
Rank Four: Wight
The defining characteristic of a Cairnhold Legion Wight is his prowess.
 
Wights are Ghouls that fulfill the following criteria:
1. Has completed at least two of the three Challenges of Gluttony, Envy  or Sloth.
2. Is recognized as a competent fighter, able to defend himself, launch  competent attacks against foes, and generally not be easy meat in any  situation. This will require a test, which may be administered at any  camping event we attend as a unit upon request to a Primarch. Any Ghoul  may test for Wight rank.
3. Has been a member of the Legion for twelve months, regularly  attending practices and scheduled events.
Wights are given a third patch to add to their Legion Belt Flag.
 
Rank Five: Dead Centurion
The defining characteristic of a Cairnhold Legion Dead Centurion is his  leadership, whether active leadership or leadership by example.
 
Dead Centurions are Wights that fulfill the following criteria:
1. Demonstrated leadership within the unit, both on the field of battle  and off, as decided upon by the Primarchs. A Dead Centurion not only can  lead the unit in battle, but can run practices, organize battles, plan  travel to other chapters, motivate lower-ranking members, and do it all  while looking better than anyone else.
2. Has completed the Challenge of Wrath.
 
Dead Centurions will add silver cord trim to their Legion belt flag.  They may also be given further accouterments of rank by the Primarchs.  These may be amulets, belt buckles, pins, badges, knives, or other such  items as the Primarchs deem fit to award.
 
Rank Six: Primarch
The defining characteristic of the Primarchs of the Cairnhold Legion is  his dedication.
 
Dead Centurions that exhibit exceptional dedication to the unit may be  raised to Primarch by a unanimous vote of the existing Primarchs.  Primarchs have the following responsibilities:
1. Plan the Legion's event schedule.
2. Provide for the Legion's encampment at camping events.
3. Assist the Regent of Winterfell, and other chapter officers, as  requested.
4. Assist with planning and execution of A Clash of Kings, the annual  Winterfell campout event in October.
5. Provide transportation as needed to battle events.
6. Everything else that needs doing.
 
Primarchs will add gold cord trim to their Legion belt flag.  Alternately, Primarchs are entitled to add a personal trim of their  choice to their belt flag at their discretion. Primarchs are further  entitled to display their personal heraldry on a flag or banner within  the Legion encampment, and at court or feast events.

Part of the requirement for skeleton rank is that you have your own  weapons and armor. This post is to clarify what that entails, depending  on your chosen combat role. These are not negotiable. You will acquire  this gear and learn to use it.
 
Shield Wall:
++ Blue weapon between 32" and 42" long with stab tip
++ Shield, majority black, with iron cross. Doesn't have to be the  patch, paint or applique is fine. Needs to be big enough to cover you  from knee to shoulder.
++ Helmet. An armor-grade mask alone is not sufficient.
++ Armor on sword arm (no metal elbows) and shoulders. Greaves are  required if your shield does not cover your lower legs.
 
Spears/Reds:
++ Spear, minimum 8' long. May substitute red weapon of 8' length or  greater if it has a stab tip.
++ Passive buckler or back shield, majority black, with iron cross. No  size restriction.
++ Backup weapon. Green dagger, blue weapon with stab tip, or flail.  Need to have a way to carry weapon.
++ Torso armor highly recommended, but not required.
 
Archers
++ Legal bow in good repair. Extra string recommended but not required.
++ Six legal arrows
++ Quiver
++ Passive buckler or back shield, majority black, with iron cross. No  size restriction.
++ Backup weapon highly recommended, but not required. Green dagger,  blue weapon with stab tip, or flail. Need to have a way to carry weapon.

[Demox]

1) I am in a unit with a plan

2) Im going to go ahead and say im not worried about you guys seeing as how a guy whom I fight with almost every week tore through your whole unit last Rag

3) Just because they do it in the military doesnt mean I care....at all. This is Dagorhir, not Afghanistan

[Dane]

Do you have the training tools and expertise to benefit your members who are stuck using single blue? Do you have the training tools and expertise to teach your people how to properly fight two-sword?

If not (you don't), I wouldn't suppose to limit anyone's equipment.

[hivemind]

2) Im going to go ahead and say im not worried about you guys seeing as how a guy whom I fight with almost every week tore through your whole unit last Rag

****thatneverhappened.txt

I expected someone in black Company to be smarter than this. Live and learn, I guess. Retards everywhere...

[Demox]

I watched it happen....

As did basically the entire event....Thursday woods battles.

Uhm?? Pretty sure nothing I said was unintelligent at all.

Your right retards everywhere.

[hivemind]

We didn't fight in the Thursday woods battle last year, so not sure what you think you saw, but it wasn't us. Might have been two or three of our guys ****ing around, but that would be the extent of it. That's a pretty far cry from tearing through the entire unit of 20+ guys.

Any time you want to stop lying, go on ahead.

[Bro'gar]

Do you have the training tools and expertise to benefit your members who are stuck using single blue? Do you have the training tools and expertise to teach your people how to properly fight two-sword?

If not (you don't), I wouldn't suppose to limit anyone's equipment.

Did I mention that this is a ranger unit not a militia?

Above I said that we are going to be doing block/strike, among other drills, which is specifically a single blue training drill.
I may not be a 10 year vet, but I have been around long enough to listen and learn from others.

[hivemind]

Did I mention that this is a ranger unit not a militia?

What's that mean in the context of a Dagorhir battlefield? Ain't a lot of recon needs to be done, so when you say "ranger" I read "undisciplined backhackers".

[Ravus]

I like this thread *fetches the popcorn*

[Dane]

Above I said that we are going to be doing block/strike, among other drills, which is specifically a single blue training drill.

Go ahead and tell me what you know about block-strike.

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

Above I said that we are going to be doing block/strike, among other drills, which is specifically a single blue training drill.

Go ahead and tell me what you know about block-strike.

I hear for every 15 minutes you drill with block strike 100 starving Malaysian children are fed.

[Demox]

What I saw was a red going nuts and tearing through 10-15 guys.....Im not the best at math, but thats actually not a far cry from 20. At all. My apologies as well, just did my fact checking. It was tuesday woods battles

Now, your unit philosophy is not by any means incorrect. I dont think such a philosphy exists. You guys want to focus on 100% line fighting together and not worry about individual skill cool.

Black Company allows me freedom of style, so I can go and become proficient in multiple style and good at a few. This way I am an asset to the unit, as opposed to just some mask on a line.

Now neither one of these philosphies is wrong....difference is im not implying that mine is the  "correct" way and yours is wrong. Simply stating I dislike the way you do it.

[Demox]

I may not be a 10 year vet, but I have been around long enough to listen and learn from others.

If you wanted to listen to the right people. You'd be listening to Dane about block strike, and single blue

[hivemind]

Sorry man, I was there all day Tuesday, and remember nothing like that. It's pretty pathetic that you've gotta try and support your incorrect theory about how to set up a cohesive unit by making up **** about the awesome people who are doing it right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

I'll never say that we're the most awesome fighters on the field, but anyone saying that one dude just tore through fifteen of us is a filthy ****ing lying sack of ****. If you find that offensive, you can come find me at Ragnarok and we can talk about it, or you can shut your piehole.

I really thought better of Black Company. My mistake, apparently. I'm disappointed.

EDIT: Alric, I'll take my ban now. I'm feeling done here again.

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

Personally I hate restricting what someone is allowed to use. I come out to fight, the way I want to fight. I think a unit telling you you cant fight a specific way for your hobby is dumb imho

I think that letting anyone in the unit use anything they want is retarded. How do you think a modern military unit (regular line unit, not an elite unit) would work if they let everyone do whatever they wanted? I figure in the typical 13 man squad, you'd have:

++ Two dudes with shotguns loaded with buckshot, because they heard it's good for killing people on TV
++ One dude with a bolt action Remington Model 700, 'cause that's what he uses to shoot deer with back home
++ One dude with a Remington Model 750, just to laugh at the guy with the Remington Model 700
++ One dude with a BAR. He's big into historical accuracy
++ Three weeaboos with Howa Type 89s
++ One dude with a homemade zip gun, because OMG YOU CAN JUST MAKE THIS STUFF YOURSELF GUYS
++ One dude with a minigun, but no ammo because it's too heavy
++ One dude with a pair of HK Mk23s who played too many video games
++ One dude with a super tacticool HK 416 with EOTech sight, forward grip, and AN/PEQ-2. He doesn't know how to field strip it, and has no batteries for the optics.
++ One dude who didn't show up because he was playing WoW

You want to fight the way you want to fight? Have fun getting mopped up by us all day. You want to win? Join a unit with some organization, some cohesion, and a plan.

Tears! I laughed so hard tears came out.

[Blackhawk The Apollyon]

That was me who tore through Carnhold Legion. I was awesome and they sucked.

When I was through I did a classic weaboo pose... epic

I had drilled 'block strike' the day before which made me awesome.

[Bro'gar]

when you say "ranger" I read "undisciplined backhackers".

I hear ya, our realm has a lot of trouble making it to events so the best we can really do as a unit is be a support group.
In the past we have done handy work being spearmen, but I'm trying to expand on the support aspect.

But what I want from the Rangers.. is to have self-motivated fighters that want to get better and are good on their own to group together into a strike force.

I guess there is some controversy about the one-stick or two-stick fighting requirements.
I'm going to keep the one-stick, everyone needs to know that, but I'm going to add more ways to rank after that than just two-stick.

[Bro'gar]

Go ahead and tell me what you know about block-strike.

Do I need a bachelors in swinging foam for you to let me start a unit? Geez
It doesn't take long reading through the forums to get all the information you need.
example:
drill light, pell heavy, spar live.

not that hard to implement.
Just watch where your shots are going, adjust your aim and get better.
Drill all the shots and blocks in the book till you can't move, and then more.
Hit the bag as hard as you can, build up endurance moving that stick.
Fight, fight, and fight some more. Kill em all!
*rinse, repeat*

[Olos]

Sorry man, I was there all day Tuesday, and remember nothing like that. It's pretty pathetic that you've gotta try and support your incorrect theory about how to set up a cohesive unit by making up **** about the awesome people who are doing it right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

I'll never say that we're the most awesome fighters on the field, but anyone saying that one dude just tore through fifteen of us is a filthy ****ing lying sack of ****. If you find that offensive, you can come find me at Ragnarok and we can talk about it, or you can shut your piehole.

I really thought better of Black Company. My mistake, apparently. I'm disappointed.

EDIT: Alric, I'll take my ban now. I'm feeling done here again.

Was 6 of you, and you weren't holding your weapons when it started, towards the end of the 7-day battle.

[Demox]

I would LOVE to have a conversation with you about what works and what doesnt and strategy. I love these types of conversations. It would be quite interesting the differing styles discussing what works and what doesnt.


However for now how about we just decide to end a pissing war before it begins and instead discuss this further at Rag so that we can get back to helping Bro'gar with his question

[Janwin]

Honestly, Demox?  I'm gonna have to agree that you're probably full of **** on this one.  Unless your buddy with the red is Jesus himself or had a shield wall of his own to hide behind, I can't see a red user just being left alone without just being bum rushed by Cairnhold en masse, especially if they had the numbers available that you claimed.

Olos' version, however?  That I could see as at least plausible.

[Bro'gar]

Hey Black Company outta STL, do you guys know Lobster?
He has done a lot to help our realm, good fighter. Definitely helps keep us all on our toes, lol.

[Magnus]

I think he didn't answer the question.

Bro, if your unit will be doing block-strike correctly, then it will help a lot. If not, well, it could go either way.

Without proper training, as Dane suggests, you will encounter difficulties.

Were I starting a unit (something I aspire to do in a few years, once I'm a little more settled down) I would not restrict the equipment people were allowed to use, per se, but I would require them to develop skill in several different combinations. Someone may start fighting with a single blue and be very mediocre, no matter how much he practices, but the instant he picks up a spear he discovers a huge untapped well of talent. If someone's true calling is in one specific kind of weapon, it's a shame if you never let him try that out.

So I think that granting ranks based on proficiency is good, but forbidding the use of different weapons before reaching those ranks is bad. Does that make sense?

Also, Hive, I demand that your entire unit perform a synchronized "Thriller" dance routine at Ragnarok, or I will not take any of your hits.

[Bro'gar]

Yeah, fair enough Magnus.

One problem that my realm has is the idgaf bug that makes people come to practice for over a year and still not have garb or gear.
I mean heck, our club president didn't even own a single stick.. idk how that happened, but you see my point.

What other kind of good reward can I give to people for gaining rank?

What I'm thinking is that if the ranks are easy to achieve, all that's really going to happen is a small "hazing" period when new fighters join the unit.
I don't want to train people to only fight single blue or anything, just kind of mandate that they take small steps when they start.


Could you give me an example of doing block/strike wrong?
I'm kinda new to it, but it seems fairly straight-forward to me.

[Dane]

Could you give me an example of doing block/strike wrong?

Sure.

not that hard to implement.
Just watch where your shots are going, adjust your aim and get better.
Drill all the shots and blocks in the book till you can't move, and then more.

[Bro'gar]

Could you give me an example of doing block/strike wrong?

Sure.

not that hard to implement.
Just watch where your shots are going, adjust your aim and get better.
Drill all the shots and blocks in the book till you can't move, and then more.

well.. thanks.

anyone who is not a d*** wanna help?

[Olos]

Hey Black Company outta STL, do you guys know Lobster?
He has done a lot to help our realm, good fighter. Definitely helps keep us all on our toes, lol.

Yeah, lobster's an alright guy, from what I remember a decent fighter, but I haven't fought him in a couple years.  We don't get too many of the amt guys out to our practice, other than Bighead once in a while, but I understand he doesn't do amt anymore?

[Varadin]

Could you give me an example of doing block/strike wrong?

Sure.

not that hard to implement.
Just watch where your shots are going, adjust your aim and get better.
Drill all the shots and blocks in the book till you can't move, and then more.

well.. thanks.

anyone who is not a d*** wanna help?

Let me point this out to you, Block strike, the accepted drill was created by Spyn when he broke his leg over a log and wasnt able to bend it for 6 months. So that he could fight in that time he and his roommate created it. He is one of the key members in a unit called "rogue company"

That Dick up there? named Dane... is in Rogue company. And is one of the best teachers of block strike in the game. So when he asks you what it is and your respond with nothing like it, i can understand his annoyance.

so that you understand what it is, without me linking an awesome video that explains it.

-you stand sword length apart,
-planting your front foot. Your front foot cannot move, you back foot can but never may the front foot move.
-Now you rotate shots: guy a swings, guy b swings, guy a swings, ect ect.
-You have 2 shot locations one high and one low. one on your right side of your body on on the left side of the body. Normally its done with sword side forarm and opposite side upper chest.
-The point of the drill is not to score hits but to get solid blocks in and have a quick return off the blocks. That quick return is to teach you power from blocks and power from odd angles. Also it gets you back in your stance quickly after a shot as you know another shot is coming shortly.


This is done 4 times in a row for 1 minutes each. switching hands in between.
Right on right
right on left
left on left
left on right

By the end of it you should be pretty tired but will learn stronger blocking and quickly attacking off it.

[Demox]

Could you give me an example of doing block/strike wrong?

Sure.

not that hard to implement.
Just watch where your shots are going, adjust your aim and get better.
Drill all the shots and blocks in the book till you can't move, and then more.

Damn near pissed myself.

Bo'gar theres a reason I told you to listen to Dane. What Varadin said is basically spot on as far as blockstrike goes.

Blockstrike is awesome, it broke me of my habit of throwing highcross and quickly increased my fighting skill

[Bro'gar]

I wasn't explaining block/strike above. But I can understand why he might have thought that.
What I meant to convey was that you can learn a lot from these boards.
What I was describing was a basic "method of training" that I had gleamed from the boards.

It doesn't take long reading through the forums to get all the information you need.
example:
drill light, pell heavy, spar live.

not that hard to implement.
Just watch where your shots are going, adjust your aim and get better.
Drill all the shots and blocks in the book till you can't move, and then more.
Hit the bag as hard as you can, build up endurance moving that stick.
Fight, fight, and fight some more. Kill em all!
*rinse, repeat*

I was just taking it as general knowledge that people knew what block/strike was, given that its on the boards.
In the OP when I mentioned block/strike I also said that I'm going to make some 6oz sticks to drill it with as suggested.
I read all the posts and watched the videos by Peter the Quick, I'm really not trying to just muck up the design of the drill.

That method of training is actually from Peter the Quick, just slightly reworded "drill light, pell heavy, spar live"
And I am very grateful to Sir Spynn and Peter for their help.

Thanks though for iterating it, I should have added in some background that I had watched the videos and read the threads.
I was just asking if, after seeing that, if there was a way to do it wrong.


edit: I guess now I can see why I was getting all of this hatred.
I'm not trying to claim block/strike or reinvent it. I really want to follow to the letter how it has been explained including hoppy etc.

[Dane]

You should be using similar length swords, and the space between your respective lead feet should be the length of that sword. That lead foot is planted, and the back foot can go wherever you like.

Beginner block-strike is two target locations. We start people with the outside sword forearm and the opposite chest. The point of the drill isn't to hit your opponent; it's to not get hit. When people start to progress in the drill, we add more hit locations, like the near chest, the inside of the sword forearm, the hips.

When we're doing block-strike, we're consciously practicing good form for our blocks and returns. This includes proper hip rotation and pronation and supination of the arm. It also involves keeping the guard projected.

The benefits of block-strike done properly are many. The obvious physical improvements are endurance, hand speed, strength of blocks, and return speed. However, in doing block-strike, you come to recognize what shots are likely to threaten you after you throw a shot, so you're already prepared for a number of scenarios after you engage. This is the biggest benefit of the drill: knowing what your opponent is likely to return with after you've thrown a certain shot. This allows you to plan several shots into a fight.

For example, if I throw a crossing flat wrap to my opponent's outside forearm, he's likely to return with a slot or chop down my inside lane. To block this, I'll rotate my sword hand so that it's palm up and give it a little lift, which should put my guard in position to intercept his inside shot. After the block, rotating the hand back the other way, throwing my right hip back, and pronating my elbow transitions me into a short cross that's chasing his arm back to its guard. I could also perform that motion without the pronation and simply chop at my opponent's elbow as he tries to recover into his guard, taking a small step toward his sword side as I do.

The above scenario can happen very often on the field if people have the awareness and knowledge to make it happen. It's built out of common shots and common returns, and block-strike at its basest level addresses it.

Block-strike should be drilled in every hand combination, and how long you work each combination is up to you. People new to the drill will find it particularly exhausting over a short period of time, but people who do it regularly will go minutes in each exchange before switching.

[Bro'gar]

Wow, that actually helped explain it a lot more. Thanks Dane

On a side note, I reworked the ranking. What do you think?
(remember I don't want the challenges to be too hard, just a choke point)


1. Beast - just joined

• restricted to single blue

Challenge of the Scout
-must defeat 2 Scout+ in single blue combat (best 2/3)

2. Scout

• granted use of light weapons (small shield, javelins, min-red, and two-stick)

Challenge of the Ranger
-must have garb
-must have been to at least one multi-realm event
-must defeat 3 of the 4 disciplines in single combat (best 2/3)

3. Ranger

• granted use of all weapons
• can choose a discipline
  
  • Keeper - Archery
  • Warder - Light Weapons
  • Sentinel - Heavy Weapons
  • Guardian - Sword and Board

Light Weapons - small shield (~30" round), javelins, min-red (<5'), two-stick
Heavy Weapons - spear (8'+), red(>5')
(these are just a guideline, I'm not sure how else to specify)

Some ideas also,
to help out the beasts, I might do battles where beasts have infinite res and everyone else is single life.
Anyone who wants to fight single blue can "turn into a beast" too if they want.

[Varadin]

yeah must have garb should be a requirment to play not to reach your second rank.

[Dane]

Is Ranger your final rank? I'd bring up your garb and event attendance requirements. If that's the top of your unit, you want them to be good ambassadors for your unit. Not everyone is built to be a great fighter, but good garb and a familiar face go a long way.

[Tooka the Gangly Goblin]

I like requirements like "Must attend 3 events." or "Acted as a commander in a unit or realm fight."

[Magnus]

I'm going to agree with Dane. For Ranger, maybe they should be required to show proficiency (determined by some sort of test, or series of tests) in 2-3 of the disciplines you mention.

[Ianmoons]

Don't forget about garb (Both having it and making it) and weapon building.  Also weapon checking and hearlding are important.  And have people teach others as they come in, don't just try to dump that job on a few people, even if someone is not good enough to teach on their own does not mean that they can't help. a good sparing partner is useful to have around when your teaching. And telling people that they can't use a weapon because their "too new/inexperienced is going to piss them off.  If your worried about someone hurting someone with a weapon that they can't handle just have the requirement be that a trainer says "He won't hurt someone with that".

[Bro'gar]

Odin has a unit? nice. Yeah I think I need to add another rank for leadership/teachers.
Not entirely sure what to call it though, that might be a good place for someone to show skill in multiple disciplines like you mentioned Magnus.
I'm not sure if I want to add it to the Ranger rank, just because that should really be the "basic fighter" of the unit.
And I don't want it to take super long before people can use any set.
Or maybe I should exagerate the steps up to Ranger, since it is the namesake of the unit.

Ianmoons, I'm really putting the restrictions in to make challenges for people. It's not so much of they wouldn't be safe to use the weapons,
although that is part of it, but more that they earned the right if that makes sense.

[Dane]

You could go either way. Calling yourselves the Rangers, that could be the rank-and-file or the top of the pile. Your requirements read like you're into recruiting people new to the game, so for those new individuals, getting to what you're currently considering a Ranger could be quite the achievement. However, earning Ranger doesn't look like that much of an accomplishment for the seasoned fighter, so you should definitely raise your ceiling with additional ranks and requirements.

[Grand High Troll]

Personally I hate restricting what someone is allowed to use. I come out to fight, the way I want to fight. I think a unit telling you you cant fight a specific way for your hobby is dumb imho

I think that letting anyone in the unit use anything they want is retarded. How do you think a modern military unit (regular line unit, not an elite unit) would work if they let everyone do whatever they wanted? I figure in the typical 13 man squad, you'd have:

++ Two dudes with shotguns loaded with buckshot, because they heard it's good for killing people on TV
++ One dude with a bolt action Remington Model 700, 'cause that's what he uses to shoot deer with back home
++ One dude with a Remington Model 750, just to laugh at the guy with the Remington Model 700
++ One dude with a BAR. He's big into historical accuracy
++ Three weeaboos with Howa Type 89s
++ One dude with a homemade zip gun, because OMG YOU CAN JUST MAKE THIS STUFF YOURSELF GUYS
++ One dude with a minigun, but no ammo because it's too heavy
++ One dude with a pair of HK Mk23s who played too many video games
++ One dude with a super tacticool HK 416 with EOTech sight, forward grip, and AN/PEQ-2. He doesn't know how to field strip it, and has no batteries for the optics.
++ One dude who didn't show up because he was playing WoW

You want to fight the way you want to fight? Have fun getting mopped up by us all day. You want to win? Join a unit with some organization, some cohesion, and a plan.

If I were raising a militia to overthrow a corrupt government, and this is what showed up, I would be overjoyed because it sure beats having a bunch of guys with no weapons.  I guess it all depends on your perspective.

[Thorpe1]

I know Lobster pretty well..he's in my belt line in A-gard. He's decent with a stick but I'd say he's average as about as average as anyone who cross games with a busy schedule/life does.

As for Bighead..he's a tool bag.

I'd stop jerking it to SKBC videos and emulating "what the rogues are doing" the rogues of Dagorhir and A-gard are successful and good no denying that but being their puppy dog looks poor on you.

block strike drills are helpful but its only 1 piece and you will have to allow for certain cultural differences with Dagorhir

[Bro'gar]

-New Revision-


1. Beast - just joined

• restricted to single blue

Challenge of the Scout
-Trial of the Vigilant-

• Attend an entire unit practice for the Haven Rangers

-Trial of the Explorer-

• Fight each present member of the Haven Rangers during a practice

-Trial of the Way-

• must defeat 2 Scout+ consecutively in single blue combat (best 2/3)

2. Scout

• may wear a tabard of the Scout (forest green and silver)
• granted use of light weapons

Challenge of the Ranger
-Trial of the Wanderer-

• must have been to at least one multi-realm event

-Trial of the Hunter-

• must defeat a Ranger of each of the 4 disciplines consecutively in single combat (best 2/3)

-Trial of the Skillsman-

• must acquire Ranger garb (forest green tunic, garb must be earth tone
• must own and maintain their own gear

3. Ranger

• may wear a tabard of the Ranger (forest green and gold)
  
• granted use of all weapons
• can choose a discipline
  
  • Keeper - Archery
  • Warder - Light Weapons
  • Sentinel - Heavy Weapons
  • Guardian - Sword and Board

Challenge of the Marshall
-Trial of the Road-

• must have been to at least 3 multi-realm events
• must have fought in another realm during a regular practice

-Trial of Forest-

• must regularly offer service to the realm
  
  • Heralding
  • Teaching/Demos
  • Hosting/Helping Feasts, Events, or Practices

-Trial of the Compass-

• Must defeat each Ranger consecutively using their chosen discipline (best 2/3)

4. Marshal

• Leadership of the Haven Rangers
• May host official drills/practices for the Haven Rangers
• May witness and approve trials for Scout/Ranger or reject trials that are deemed improper
• May promote members to Scout/Ranger who have completed their respective challenge

5. Lord Marshal

• Unit Commander of the Haven Rangers
• Must be witness to and approve of all Marshal trials
• May promote members to Marshal who have completed the Marshal Challenge

Light Weapons - small shield (~30" round), javelins, min-red (<5'), two-stick
Heavy Weapons - spear (8'+), red(>5')


I'm thinking its going to make those challenges a lot harder if all the wins have to be consecutive.
I tried to think of better more themed challenges, but I think its easier to just keep it to combat basics.

Still working on what to give to Marshal/Lord Marshal as a bonus, but I'm thinking the title should be good if its well earned. (thanks Timmourne for the name idea btw )
edit: added in that all trials must be approved by a Marshal

I realize that some of this might be harder to achieve, but I want it to be geared towards a group of elite rangers and not just a big unit.

edit: as far as event requirements go, its a college'ish group so many people can't make it to events. and the whole realm cycles out, so its harder to find lasting veterans.

[Ilyas ibn Yahya]

-New Revision-


...
-Trial of the Way-

• must defeat 2 Scout+ consecutively in single blue combat (best 2/3)

...

I find this sort of test odd.

"In order to join us you have to be better then our two worst people."

"But if they can't pass the test why did you let them in?"

"We took pity on squire Derp and Runs-with-round-tip-scissors and threw the trail."

[Kendall Cinvent]

When I first started in dag the guy running the unit I was in had a system set up with ranks, tests to make rank, and weapon restrictions. While it was fine for me (the weapons I wanted to use were not restricted), a good number of people seemed to resent it. People were upset that the stuff they thought was cool was not what they got to play with, and there was a certain amount displeasure on how the same test could vary in difficulty due to all manner of variables. Most of all I remember people getting salty when they met a criteria, but several month later the criteria changed and they could no longer fight with what they wanted. Suffice to say it seemed to cause more problems than it solved.

I'm not posting the above to discourage you, but rather to forewarn you that if you want to do this, you will want to be very consistent and have people with the right attitudes for it to really work out.

[Bro'gar]

Ilyas, yeah good point lol. But, I think I'm going to change it to just beat two scout+ during a single practice.
They should be able to keep going enough to get 2 wins, but its also not meant to be really hard since scout is still a restricted set.

Kendall, yeah for sure. Part of the reason why I'm making this as a unit, the realm has talked about it but we all decided it was a bad idea to force on a realm.
I've been wanting to implement something like this and I think if I do it light enough it shouldn't be a big hassle.
I mean, just 2 steps instead of "earning proficiency" in each certain weapon before you can use it. Most fighters I have seen fit into the light weapons category anyways.
Just cuts out spear/glaive and towershields, which should make the fighting a little more active imo.
But yeah, consistency for sure. Part of the reason why I am going to solidate all this a month before I start recruiting.
We have other units but they don't have rank/requirements or even symbols so they are mostly ghost units. I'm wanting this to be one of our first real structured units