Gear > Weapons & Armor
War Hammers
Guntar von Keitz:
As others have noted, in Dagorhir (and other combat systems), veterans tend to use weapons that are *effective* and this does not always translate into what weapons were used commonly on the battlefield of centuries gone by. In contrast, relative newcomers to our beloved sport often have ideas of fantastic and cool-looking weapons (such as huge axes and hammers) that just are not very effective on the Dagorhir battlefield. Sorry, but they are not in my experience. Feel free to disagree with me of course (due props to Maggot).
This is primarily a factor of speed--they tend to be too slow AND they do not work like they are primarily intended. A super example of this are axes and big hammers. In reality, they would deliver positively devastating blows that would kill or maim those who get hit and knock people silly who managed to block the blow. Our rules accommodate this ala' red weapons that ignore armor and can break shields. However, even with new "miracles" in weapon technology, they are still slow compared to blue weapons and the person using them can generally get only one solid hit to a shieldman before they get run-over and die. On the flip side, if they can be made fast enough, they oftne do not hit hard enough to count as a solid hit to a shield (though this remains a contentious area to be sure). Of course, adding good footwork and lots of lightweight armor allows the red weapon user to survive the blue strike or two and deliver the blow that breaks the shield and then the tables get turned FAST.
However and as Dominus noted, despite this, red weapons are really best and most effectively used as SUPPORT weapons, similar to spears and archers really. At this past Ragnarok, my "signature" battle was one I used my greatsword. While I died near the end (arrow to shin killed my mobility and me soon after) and "only" killed 3-4 persons total, I worked with others to break 4 or 5 shields and wounded probably 6 or 7 persons. Becase I was working with others, those persons who's shields I broke or wounded were quickly killed by my friends. In a later battle and using similar teamwork, the Kutrigiri (who I fought with) were the winners of a huge unit battle.
I hope this helps put things in perspective.
Dominus:
Güntar,
As the best weaponmaker I've met, I was hoping you might be able to lend some insight on hammer design. (I almost forwarded this topic to you via e-mail this morning.)
Guntar von Keitz:
Dominus, you *really* are being too kind. I'll (for sake of modesty) accept some of this praise for my shields and swords of all sizes, but I bought my arrows and javelins and am relatively new to polearms (though I am very pleased with those). In terms of best all around weapons designer/maker, I think Erekose has to win out. He has made everything and is always trying to make new and better stuff. I have learned very much from him and I hope I've helped him out on occasion, especially in terms of materials.
Sure, my equipment might look a bit nicer (I owe my beloved wife and her sewing skills a LOT in that department) and may even be a touch safer than Erekose/Getiguiste equipment, but it is not enough to signify.
As for a hammer, I have never made one but have been thinking about it bit. I also have never made an axe (though I guess my "baby glaive" migh quality). This is due to my original post above about what is and is not effective. I'm sure I could but I'm not the best person to help in this specific case.
Harek:
Güntar, am I to understand that you don't consider blue axes and hammers to be effective in Dagorhir combat? I'm just curious, because while I agree with the assessment of red weapons (best used as support weapons, and largely a labor of love in Dagorhir combat because most 'real-life' benefits are diminished), I've seen some really good blue axe- and hammer-fighters who use the nature of these weapons very well on the field.
Anyhow, I could outline some of the advantages of an axe over a sword--which IMHO are real though not overwhelming or even advantageous overall--but that might compromise my occasional victories when wielding my own blue axe.
Guntar von Keitz:
Hárekr, I was mainly speaking as to RED axes and hammers as you noted. A well-made blue axe and hammer (club/mace/what-have-you) CAN certainly be as effective as a sword. Heck, I've seen clubs and maces that looked and moved quite similar to some "club-like" swords so the "division" can get pretty gray if you see what I mean. Also, in Aratari, clubs have no minimum weight (while swords have to weigh 12 oz. or more) and I've seen some really fast ones!
That said, I'd very much like to hear your arguments for why a blue axe/mace can be superior to a blue sword. I can think of an easy one, blue sword cores often have too much flex and are too-light to block weapon strikes effectively or at least over-and-over again. The strikes also tend to damage the blade and help speed it to failure whereas a well-made ae should hold up longer. But please, do add to the list.
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